Tech Addiction Effects: How Screens are Shaping Teen Mental Health
In this episode, host Tiffany Herlin, LCSW, and therapist Greg Allred, ACMHC, examine teen mental health in the digital era. Drawing from Jonathan Haidt's The Anxious Generation, they explore how the shift from outdoor play to screen time has contributed to rising anxiety and depression among adolescents since 2010. The discussion covers social media's addictive nature, the importance of free play and outdoor activities, and practical solutions for parents. Through their conversation, nature-based therapy at centers like ThreePeaks Ascent emerges as a promising approach for struggling teens.
This enlightening conversation between Tiffany Herlin and Greg Allred sheds light on the pressing issues of adolescent mental health in our digital age. Their discussion, informed by recent research and personal experiences, offers valuable insights for parents and professionals alike. This episode explores the challenges facing today's youth and potential solutions, including the benefits of nature-based therapy. ThreePeaks Ascent, a nature-based residential treatment center, emerges as a beacon of hope for teens struggling with mental, emotional, and behavioral health issues in this increasingly complex world. Worried About Your Teen’s Technology Use? Call Us Now at 435-272-1280
Introduction
Tiffany: Welcome to the podcast. Today’s topic is incredibly important because anxiety has become so prevalent among young people. The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt has gained a lot of attention recently, highlighting the pressure teens face in modern life—pressures that are made worse by the constant influence of technology. Many teenagers are struggling with mental health crises as a result.
As parents try to help their children, it’s becoming more important than ever to explore alternative therapies like nature-based therapy. This series will dive into these issues, shedding light on the current mental health landscape for adolescents and how parents can help their teens unplug and reconnect with reality.
I’m Tiffany Herlin, a licensed clinical social worker, and today I’m excited to be interviewing Greg Allred, an associate clinical mental health counselor (ACMHC) from ThreePeaks Ascent. ThreePeaks is a short-term, nature-based residential treatment program for teens ages 13 to 17, and many of the students may qualify for insurance coverage.
Thank you so much for being here, Greg.
Greg: Thanks for having me.
Tiffany: Before we dive in, just a quick disclaimer: This podcast is not a substitute for therapy, so please consult a mental health professional for advice on your specific situation.
All right, Greg, thank you again for being here. You drove a couple of hours to be with us today from Southern Utah.
Greg: Yep, that’s right. That’s where I live.
Tiffany: That’s great. Let’s start by hearing a bit about you and your role at ThreePeaks Ascent.
Greg: I've been working at ThreePeaks Ascent for about two and a half years now. I'm an associate clinical mental health counselor, and, as you mentioned, I work as a primary therapist with students.
We have a wide range of students who come to us with various mental health issues. We match each student with a therapist based on compatibility, expertise, and the child's specific needs. I've been working with adolescents for nearly 18 years, and I'm very passionate about the outdoors.
One of the reasons I decided to return to a nature-based program is because of my love for that environment. I believe being in nature is conducive to good mental health. I also enjoy doing therapy outside of the usual structured settings, using the natural environment and the unique opportunities our location offers.
Tiffany: For those of our listeners who haven’t been to Southern Utah, it’s absolutely beautiful.
Greg: Yeah, it is.
Tiffany: People from all over the world come to visit our national parks down there. You're practically surrounded by some of the most breathtaking scenery.
Do you have a favorite spot out there?
Greg: Escalante, Utah is my absolute favorite. It's where I was first introduced to the outdoors as a teenager. I immersed myself in nature, learning how to backpack and develop primitive skills. That was my initial exposure, and it’s still the place I go to recharge. One of the things I hope the kids in our program take away is that the natural environment is a safe space. It offers so many learning opportunities. We’ll touch more on the safety aspect later, which Jonathan Haidt highlights well in his book.
But yeah, Escalante is where I go to refresh. I’ve discovered other beautiful spots too, but Escalante will always be my favorite.
Tiffany: It has one of my favorite hikes—Calf Creek Falls.
Greg: Oh, Calf Creek is stunning.
Tiffany: I’ve done it once, but I need to get back out there.
Greg: Yeah, it’s beautiful.
Tiffany: Gorgeous. To our listeners, if you’ve never been to Southern Utah, I highly recommend visiting—it's truly breathtaking.
The Great Rewiring: Impact of Technology on Childhood
Tiffany: Greg, I’m so glad we connected. I was looking for a therapist at ThreePeaks who was familiar with the book I had recently read and researched, and you had just read and researched it too.
Greg: Yeah, that's right.
Tiffany: And now we’re both fully on board, thinking every parent should read this book, right? Let’s start by talking about what the author means by "the great rewiring."
Greg: What he refers to as "the great rewiring" is essentially the period from 2010 to 2015, focusing on kids who hadn’t hit puberty yet. During that time, they shifted away from a play-based childhood to a phone-based childhood. This doesn’t just mean phones but includes all forms of technology, which we’ll dive into more later.
The idea is that kids stopped playing outside and, during those critical early years, spent more time on their phones. This change affected how they interacted with others and how they formed relationships during those formative years—especially in terms of building confidence in social interactions, among other things.
So, during that time, children's brains were essentially rewired.
Tiffany: Yeah, exactly. And not only does he talk about it, but he backs it up with research, which we’re going to dive into, and that makes it even more impactful.
Greg: Absolutely. What I love about this book is that every parent I talk to, and even in my own experience, we all struggle with the same issues around technology. I have a love-hate relationship with it. I love that we can do things like this podcast, or use Zoom, or Google Meet, and binge-watch our favorite shows. But at the same time, I hate it because I find myself binge-watching shows and constantly being available, like people expect me to be reachable 24/7.
So, it’s a mixed relationship, and I think everyone feels the same way. What’s great about the book is that it highlights the issues we’ve all noticed, and it provides data to back it up. He connects the release of certain technologies and apps to the rise in mental health problems, showing a clear correlation.
Tiffany: You nailed it. As a parent, you sit there thinking, "I know phones, social media, video games, and even things like pornography are affecting my teens. I see it, but I can’t quite explain it." Even parents of younger kids experience this. I’ve heard them say, "If I take away the screen from my two- or three-year-old, they have a complete meltdown. Is this an addiction already? Is this real, or am I overreacting?"
And the reality is—you’re not overreacting. This is real. It does rewire the brain.
Greg: We’re getting a lot of dopamine hits from technology use. I think people are becoming more aware of just how much dopamine we get from these interactions—whether it’s social media, emails, alerts, gaming, or even accessing pornography. There’s a huge amount of dopamine being released, and it’s very different from when I was growing up.
I was born in 1972, and I grew up in the '70s and '80s. I remember my dad being concerned about the TV becoming a babysitter, so there was a strict limit on how much television we could watch. Now, it's completely different—it’s many times worse. Technology is everywhere, and we carry it in our pockets.
As technology has evolved, it’s become more ingrained in our lives, and kids are using it constantly. It’s often used as a way to calm kids down, and I empathize with parents who’ve gone that route. Giving a child an iPad can provide a few minutes of peace, which helps parents take care of things when their child is upset.
But the downside is that it rewires their brain, or wires it in a way that makes them crave it. This can lead to addiction. There are a lot of factors that contribute to this, but there are also ways we can start to pull back and reduce their dependence on it.
Tiffany: If this podcast is making you feel a little anxious, don’t worry—you’re not alone. Even reading this book gave me some anxiety because I caught myself thinking, "Oh, I do that." For example, at dinner, when our two-year-old has a meltdown, we’ll pull out the phone to calm him down—and I’m guilty of that. My mother-in-law even commented the other day, “It would’ve been so much easier raising kids if we had that.” And I thought, well, yes and no. I understand now what this does to my child, even though I still use it sometimes because it’s the easy solution.
I’ve talked to people in our generation, and older ones too, who remember going outside to play, with no way for our parents to track us. We’d come home when the streetlights came on, and we were told to go have fun, take risks, and just be kids.
But now, as the book talks about, there’s been a shift toward fear-based parenting. Parents today are worried about what's happening outside their doors—they're concerned about things like kidnapping, traffic accidents, drugs, and alcohol. These are big, scary issues that seem more prevalent than they probably are.
So, instead of letting our kids play outside, we keep them indoors, but we hand them electronic devices to keep them busy. The problem is that those devices expose them to the adult world. There aren’t many regulations, and we don’t always know how to keep our kids safe online because, frankly, we don’t know what we don’t know.
The Social Experiment of Technology Use
Tiffany: He compared it to sending your kids to Mars without knowing what impact that would have on their development.
Greg: I loved his introduction. He used this example of a 13-year-old—around the age when a child can legally consent to use a social media site without parental approval.
Tiffany: Between 13 and 14.
Greg: Right. So, imagine letting a child that age consent to go on a trip to Mars without any parental involvement. We wouldn’t know how that would affect them, and there would be all kinds of risks—especially since they're going through puberty, with all the rapid physical and emotional changes. He likened that to what we’re doing by handing kids phones and letting them loose in the digital world. We don’t know what long-term impact it will have on them.
He calls it a social experiment that no one approved or thought through ahead of time. We just did it—and now we’re starting to see the consequences.
Tiffany: The data is coming in now, and we’re going to dive into that in a minute—looking at how it’s affecting our kids’ development, rewiring their brains, and impacting their mental health.
Ultimately, we’re seeing these issues as therapists when clients come through the door.
I remember when the internet first came out. I want to look at a graph in a moment, but when technology advanced with dial-up, my parents had no idea what I was exposed to. I remember being in chat rooms, messaging people I didn’t know, and having access to this entire world. My parents were clueless about it all. Looking back, I realize I was fine and safe and didn’t get into too much trouble, but wow, I could have. It’s like a young teenage girl being exposed to this vast, foreign world that’s as unwelcoming as Mars—not suitable for kids at all.
Greg: There are no ratings on most of this content. And for the things that do have ratings, we have some barriers in place to keep kids from accessing them. But it usually boils down to questions like, “Are you 21 or older? Are you 18 or older?” And anyone can just type in their age. There’s no real verification. Yes, there are ways to verify that information, but we don't implement those measures.
During that time, we were moving away from a play-based childhood. As you mentioned, we played outside until the streetlights came on, often begging our parents to let us stay out longer. That was me.
Tiffany: Yeah, me too. Climbing trees, making forts...
Greg: Those were great experiences. We’ll talk more about the safety aspect later, but there were so many concerns that were blown out of proportion. As you mentioned, if something affected you or your community, it felt very close to home. The fear of kidnapping, abduction, and serial killers was certainly exaggerated.
With television, we were bombarded with sensationalized portrayals of scary events in the world. I remember the phrase, “If it bleeds, it leads.” Those stories drove the news cycle and heightened parents' fears. When the internet emerged, many thought, “Great! We can have more control, and the kids will be safe because they’re at home.”
But in reality, children were accessing the entire world online. On one hand, parents worried about potential kidnappers down the street, while their kids were in chat rooms with predatory adults posing as 12- or 13-year-olds. Kids often can't discern these dangers and tend to trust people they meet online, which can lead to very risky situations.
Tiffany: Absolutely. From personal experience, I remember being a teenager with my girlfriend, chatting online with a guy we thought lived in another state and was our age. We’d say, “Oh, he sounds so cute and dreamy!” We looked forward to our conversations, even though we never met him. Who knows if he was our age? It’s interesting—we’re so scared of the “big bad wolves” outside our door, yet they’re creeping in through our electronics.
Greg: We’re letting them in.
Tiffany: Yep, and we don’t even realize it. It’s crazy to look back and see how far technology has taken us, both positively and negatively.
If you look at this graph, it shows a spike around 2010, marking the peak of the internet, smartphones, social media, and computers. While radio and TV have been around for a while, this is when everything changed dramatically.
Rising Mental Health Issues Among Adolescents
Tiffany: This graph shows a significant trend. Let’s discuss how this shift has impacted mental health and some of the research behind it. How has the "great rewiring" of childhood contributed to rising depression rates? If we look at the graph, we can see that between 2010 and 2015, the rates spike dramatically. Then, in 2020, we saw another peak coinciding with the pandemic, which kept more people indoors and on their electronics. While there’s a slight decline afterward, the numbers remain alarmingly high for both girls and boys.
For instance, there’s been a 145% increase in reported depressive episodes among girls since 2012—that's just girls.
And that increase is significantly higher for girls than for boys, which we’ll discuss later. Overall, there’s been a 161% increase in reported depressive episodes in the same period. Isn't that staggering?
Now, shifting to anxiety, while I don’t have the exact statistics, I can show our viewers the prevalence of anxiety. From 2010 to 2015, the rates remain steady, but then they peak dramatically. Although we don’t have data for adolescents here, it’s evident that for those aged 18 to 25, anxiety rates have surged.
Greg: Yeah, there’s been a significant jump.
Tiffany: Absolutely. Here’s another striking fact: among girls, there’s been a 188% increase in emergency room visits for self-harm since 2010, along with a 167% rise in suicide rates. Are you noticing this trend in your practice?
Greg: Yes. We are observing an increase in self-injurious behavior, and there are several contributing factors. One notable aspect is the contagious effect.
When an individual engages in self-harm, it often influences others. This is especially true with suicidal ideation; when such incidents occur in a community, there are usually others who begin to engage in similar behaviors.
Tiffany: I think he discusses that in his book. The more these behaviors are shared on social media, the more we observe this contagion effect.
Greg: It spreads rapidly, particularly with platforms like TikTok and other video-sharing sites. Many kids are actively seeking out mental health content on TikTok, and once they engage with it, the algorithm feeds them even more of that type of content.
Tiffany: Yes, exactly—it's the echo chamber effect.
For our listeners, most parents are likely aware of this, but just in case you're not—when you interact with social media, your algorithm takes note. If a teenager searches for topics related to suicide or self-harm, the algorithm will start feeding them more of that content. This creates a concerning echo chamber, especially on platforms like YouTube and TikTok, which tailor content based on what users engage with.
Greg: It’s not just about actively seeking content; even incidental interactions can trigger this effect. For example, just this morning, I glanced at my newsfeed and saw a little story about some actors from that old television show The Love Boat, which I used to watch as a kid. I clicked on it, read a bit, and then moved on. But when I refreshed my newsfeed, another article about The Love Boat popped up. I hadn’t searched for it deliberately, but because I had looked at that one article, the algorithm assumed I wanted more information about it. It’s astonishing how quickly that happens.
Tiffany: By the way, for those listening who may not know, I’m pregnant. And it's wild how these algorithms work. Before I even told everyone I was expecting, I had Googled a few pregnancy-related things. Then suddenly, one of my social media feeds was full of pregnancy ads and articles. I remember thinking, "The internet knows I’m pregnant before my family does!" It’s just crazy how it picks up on that so quickly.
Impact of Social Media on Mental Health
Tiffany: So, quickly shifting gears again, we’ve got a few graphs here to show. This one highlights hospitalizations for self-harm and suicide rates, especially spiking in 2020. You can see here that for ages 15 to 19, the suicide rates are higher for males than females. But again, it all peaks after 2010. For boys, the numbers are also really alarming—a 48% increase in self-harm-related ER visits and a 91% surge in suicide rates, which is right here on the graph.
And if we look at daily social media usage, this is data based on high school adolescents, and it’s nearly every day. You can see the trend here, 12th graders, 10th graders, 8th graders, all just skyrocketing after 2010. I think—correct me if I’m wrong—but in the book, he mentioned something like nine hours a day on social media.
Greg: Around seven-plus hours a day is the average.
Tiffany: That’s like a full-time job.
Greg: Yeah, in fact, I wrote it down. Many teens are using it well over 40 hours a week, some even up into the hundreds. It’s a huge amount.
Tiffany: Wait, did you just say 40 hours a week?
Greg: Yes, plus some.
Tiffany: Wow.
Greg: And there’s another point he made that I thought was interesting. There's the actual time spent online—on social media, gaming, or other platforms—but then there’s also the occupied time, where even though they’re not on it, they’re still thinking about it. They’re consumed by thoughts about what they were viewing or when they can log back in. So it’s occupying their mental space, even when they’re away from the screen.
Tiffany: They're thinking about how many likes they’ve gotten or what’s happening in their games. He also talks about how all these apps are designed to constantly seek out your attention, which I’ve noticed. I was teaching myself about it because I have two adolescent and preteen girls. One of them has a smartphone now. And I told her, "Your apps are always sending you notifications."
Like, even with something good, like Duolingo that we do as a family, it's constantly pinging with, "Hey, don’t forget!" These apps want your attention because the more you use them, the better it is for them.
Greg: He refers to it as a trigger. It’s a way to keep people engaged. They have a trigger, which leads to a behavior.
Tiffany: Daily time spent with friends, especially for 15- to 24-year-olds, has just plummeted since 2010. Even meeting up with friends has dropped.
Greg: Right, people may be "connecting" more online, but real-life connections are decreasing. The quantity of interaction may have gone up, but the quality has decreased.
Tiffany: Yeah, so what did you find?
Greg: Yes, it's the trigger-action-reward model. First, there's the trigger.
So the trigger is like when you get an alert—someone sent you something, and you feel like you need to check it. Then the action is opening your social media to see who posted. After that comes the variable reward—you might get something good, like a lot of likes or a fun comment, but it’s variable because it’s not always what you hoped for. This taps into operant conditioning and how behavior is reinforced. We get that little dopamine hit when something exciting happens, so we keep coming back, seeking more of it. Then there’s investment—you’ve posted a lot, spent time on this game, or earned several badges, so you’re more invested.
Tiffany: Even simple games have this, like the ones that seem never-ending. They’re designed to pull you in and keep giving you just enough reward, but not too much—like a slot machine.
Greg: It’s all about operant conditioning. The idea is to increase behavior with rewards. If you were rewarded every time, you’d get bored. So, with variable reinforcement, you never know what you’re going to get, which makes it more addictive.
Tiffany: It’s the randomness that sparks our brains’ interest the most.
Greg: Everyone agrees that gambling is highly addictive. That’s something the book didn’t address much, but it's becoming a significant issue among young men, especially those 18 and older. The variable rate of reward is what makes it so engaging. Just like a slot machine, even though we don’t put quarters in anymore, we still have those sounds that mimic the coins dropping. We have all these rewards, and while sometimes we don’t win anything, at other times, we hit the jackpot.
Tiffany: Right, it keeps people coming back.
Greg: It’s been proven that if you receive a great reward, very few people can walk away. Most people will continue to seek out something greater. I had a psychology professor who used a great analogy: gambling versus using a Coke machine. When was the last time you put 50 cents in a machine and didn’t get a drink, thinking, "That was fun! Let’s do it again"? You wouldn’t, but in gambling, we enjoy that risk. Those same strategies are utilized in gaming and social media platforms to a tremendous degree.
Tiffany: And a lot of these app developers are using psychological principles to manipulate us.
Greg: 100 percent.
Tiffany: They want to pull us into their world, which ultimately generates more money and exposure for them, making their apps even better. The more we use their app, the better it becomes, whether it’s a game or social media.
Greg: We just discussed the trigger, action, reinforcement, and investment. I don’t want to misquote, but I believe some leaked documents from a presentation explained how they keep individuals invested in their platforms.
Tiffany: Well, none of these apps or social media platforms have been held accountable until recently.
People are starting to push for accountability.
Greg: It's a slow process.
Tiffany: Very slow.
Greg: Yeah, because they’re huge.
Tiffany: Yeah, even in the book, he mentions that there are regulations, such as not being able to create a social media account unless you're 13 or 14. But are they held accountable? Do they reinforce that?
Greg: No, not really. All you need to do is enter the right birthdate. As long as you can do some simple math to figure out, “Oh, this would make me this age,” you can easily bypass it. There are some more advanced measures, but they talk about technologies where we can identify individuals through digital IDs. Even if a company were to be hacked, it wouldn’t necessarily reveal the specific sites people are visiting, so their privacy could still be maintained. We just need to verify our age to access certain sites. We already do that for many things.
Tiffany: Just like going into a bar, you can’t get a drink unless you show your ID.
Greg: Even if someone looks over 21, they still need to scan their ID to enter the establishment. The technology is there. The argument of, “Oh, we’re working on it,” shows they’re not genuinely invested in solving this issue. If you watch the documentary about the competition between BlackBerry and iPhone, they worked tirelessly to be the first to implement touchscreen technology. These monumental problems can be solved. Why is this one so impossible? It’s because they don’t want to solve it. Children are consuming their products endlessly, and if they can keep that going without accountability, it’s easy for them to say, “Oh, we don’t know what to do.”
Tiffany: As parents, the more we understand, the better equipped we are to advocate for change with our government and push for better regulations. This book has blown my mind. If you haven't read it yet, please do. It’s crucial and eye-opening, whether you have older kids or little ones. We all need to be aware of what's going on. What other notes have you written down?
The Shift from Play-Based to Phone-Based Childhood
Tiffany: I want to pick your brain a bit. We won't cover every aspect of the book, but what are some key takeaways you’d like to share with our listeners?
Greg: One part that stood out to me was the section on safety. The author discusses two elements that I found compelling: the shift from play-based childhoods to phone-based ones. We touched on this earlier, but it’s concerning what kids are missing out on by not having regular human interaction. During the pandemic, it was interesting to see how technology served as a lifeline for many. I was working for a program that involved kids from all over the country, and while we kept them engaged through video conferencing, I often wondered about what they were missing by interacting this way.
The author emphasizes the value of free play on the playground, where kids create their own rules without adults stepping in to ensure everything is fair. While I appreciate the importance of fairness, kids need to understand that life isn't always fair. They need opportunities to work through conflicts and solve problems. One issue I see with online interactions is that it's all too easy to shut things down without resolving them. Kids miss out on face-to-face interactions that help them learn how to be diplomatic, and kind, and treat one another properly. That shift in social learning is concerning.
Tiffany: I completely agree. I loved that part of the book too, where the author advocates for more time on the playground and less adult oversight. Kids must struggle and work through things on their own. During the pandemic, many parents and teachers witnessed firsthand the downsides of relying solely on electronic connections. While it was great that we could keep things going with Zoom calls, teachers could tell you about the challenges they faced—like not being able to read body language or see if students were paying attention.
As a parent, I have one child who is focused and engaged online, but another who has ADHD and struggles to concentrate. Many parents can relate to that. You touched on so many experiences that resonated with parents and listeners during that time. I love how you mentioned that kids need to be challenged and engage in some healthy risk-taking play. It’s all part of helping them problem-solve because, as we know, life can be tough. Parents won’t always be there to rescue them, and I’ve caught myself reminding parents of that too.
It’s so easy to jump in when my kids are fighting and say, "Hey, both of you knock it off. We’re going to sit down and solve this." But there are times when I’ll step back and say, "You guys go work it out and let me know what you decide." Then I hear, "But Mom, she hit me, and it’s just not fair!" And I’ll respond, "I’m not going to solve this for you. You need to work it out and then come talk to me." That’s such an important life skill that our kids aren't necessarily learning.
Greg: I love that. There’s a statement I’ve come across: "Are you preparing the path for the child, or are you preparing the child for the path?"
Tiffany: Ooh, I love that!
The Importance of Risk in Childhood Development
Greg: Are you clearing the obstacles for your child when problems arise, or are you preparing them to handle challenges themselves? Children need to learn how to deal with everyday conflicts and discomforts, as these experiences are vital for their growth into healthy, strong individuals. When we talk about a play that carries some risk, there's significant value in getting those scrapes and bumps; that's how kids discover their limits.
I think back to my childhood. My mom was worried about a lot of things, but when I was 12, I'd say, "I’m going to ride my motorcycle." Her only response was, "Wear your helmet." I’d be gone for hours, and she didn’t even think about it until dinner time—just hoping I was okay. I had my fair share of crashes, but those experiences taught me a lot about what I was capable of.
If we're overly cautious and always stepping in, we're taking away those opportunities for children to learn about their strengths. I once saw a meme that really bothered me; it showed a kid on a bicycle wearing a helmet, captioned, "Oh, this is when things went downhill." In reality, wearing a helmet helped prevent many brain injuries. It’s about finding a balance—using safety measures while still allowing for challenges.
Of course, I wouldn't recommend someone go rock climbing without the right knowledge and gear. You have to learn proper techniques like knot tying and belaying first. It’s essential to push your limits but do it safely.
Tiffany: We’ll delve deeper into this in our next episode, so stay tuned. It’s crucial to understand that seeking high-risk experiences is part of normal child development. During their teenage years, kids often don’t use their frontal cortex—the area of the brain responsible for decision-making and foresight—because it isn’t fully developed. This leads to impulsive, irrational decisions, which is typical behavior at this age.
Kids will naturally seek high-risk activities and test boundaries, so it's essential to teach them how to do so safely. For instance, sports can be a fantastic outlet. If a child has anger issues, playing football can be a healthy way to channel that energy. I wasn’t very athletic, but I got into cross country. Running was great for my mental health, especially during tough days. I would run my heart out, often to the point of tears, but it always made me feel better.
I want to share something personal with our listeners. As a therapist, I know all this theoretically, but applying it in real life can be challenging. If you’re a parent struggling to implement what you know, that’s perfectly normal. We all face similar challenges.
Just recently, I sent my daughter on a week-long school trip to visit every national park in Utah. I have no access to her; she has a watch I can call, but it’s dead, and she hasn’t charged it. There’s no cell service, and every night I find myself anxious, hoping she’s okay and that the girls in her tent are having good conversations. But as I listen to our discussion, I realize this trip is essential for her.
I had to cut the strings and let go, even though it was tough for me not to have constant access to her. I know this experience will be beneficial, and as long as she returns safe and sound, we can discuss any challenges she faces along the way.
We can work through it. If she encounters social issues, gets made fun of, or loses something important, those bumps and bruises are still part of a good environment. She's not taking extreme risks that could jeopardize her safety; there’s good supervision. They do provide updates, and that’s why I sent her, even though it's tough for me as a parent.
Greg: Yes, there’s a great section near the end of the book that discusses various strategies to offset the damage done and how to utilize these approaches healthily. I love that many of his suggestions revolve around parents doing their work.
It's not just about the kids; parents need to recognize their roles. We often talk about anxious kids, but it’s usually because parents misuse their devices or are nervous about letting their children out of their sight. He shares his experience with one of his children, starting with allowing them to walk to school. Initially, he would track them on an app.
Tiffany: We call that “low-jacking” our kids. I can track them everywhere they go based on their electronics.
Greg: Yes, and parents need to relax about that and gradually let the reins out.
Tiffany: I love that concept. It’s all about parenting—allowing your kids to engage in more free-range behavior. You work through your concerns, recognize the risks involved, and take steps to ensure their safety. By starting small, you help both yourself and your child.
We often see anxious kids in our office, and there’s a good chance the parents are anxious as well, projecting that onto their children. Our work isn’t just with the kids; we do a lot of family work. We help parents understand how their anxiety influences their kids and what behaviors might be triggering those feelings, often without their awareness. This reflection can be tougher than working with the kids.
Greg: Yes.
Tiffany: Helping parents hold up the mirror takes a lot of humility and vulnerability.
Greg: Absolutely. With the kids I've worked with, I've noticed that nearly all of them have malleable brains. Brain plasticity is strongest when we're younger, and while it decreases over time, the good news is that we can make significant changes and rewire our brains. For instance, there are cases where the corpus callosum has been severed to reduce seizures. When this happens in a child, the physical manifestations in behavior are minimal compared to adults, where the effects are much more noticeable.
Tiffany: That’s a great point.
Greg: Yes, and it's important to let them know that their parents might revert to old patterns easily, so the change might not be as significant. However, they need to learn that they are in control of their reactions and responses.
Modeling Behavior for Children
Greg: That’s what you can work on. It's largely about the parents and the messages they send. I love discussing this with parents. It reminds me of that old PSA from the eighties, where a kid is in his room rocking out, and his dad walks in with a cigar box filled with drug paraphernalia, saying, "Your mother found this. Where did you learn to do this?" The kid replies, "I learned it by watching you." While I didn’t relate to that growing up in a conservative household, the message is relevant.
When we talk about technology today, we can easily apply that same concept. Parents need to examine their behavior and how it influences their children. Do they answer phones at the dinner table? Do they even have dinner together? Are there phone-free times? Are they texting while at restaurants or on family vacations? These habits carry over.
Tiffany: Is your technology use taking attention away from your time with your kids? It's worth reevaluating. That’s the tough part about this book; it forces you to reflect on your technology use as a parent and how it shapes your parenting style. It can be a difficult pill to swallow. I often have conversations with friends, clients, and family members about what their technology habits look like. They might say, "My kids are addicted to their phones," and express frustration. I respond by asking them to consider, "Are you setting a good example?" If they are, great! That’s one less problem to address. But if they’re not, that’s where they need to start.
Let’s talk about solutions. There are psychology and research books that present problems without offering solutions, leaving you feeling anxious and unsure about what to do next. However, this book provides some great tips and themes that I'd love for us to discuss. What stood out to you?
Greg: He offers numerous solutions that parents can implement when introducing technology to their children. One key point is that kids shouldn’t have smartphones until they’re older. The bottom line is, the later, the better.
Tiffany: He suggests around age 14, if you can hold off until then, that’s ideal.
Greg: Exactly. Plus, be very aware of parental controls.
Tiffany: Yes.
Greg: He also addresses whether parents should monitor their kids' texts. That’s an interesting point.
Tiffany: I don’t know if I fully agree with that. I come from a different background, but it’s worth considering.
Greg: Right. It’s important to evaluate how the child is using their device. If they appear to be using it healthily, maybe some oversight is appropriate.
He doesn’t necessarily advocate for total control, which suggests that sometimes, it’s best to back off a little.
Tiffany: I think there’s a good middle ground. You don’t want to read every single text. As a parent, I don’t have time for that.
Greg: Who does? No one has that kind of time.
Tiffany: My teen sends more text messages in one day than I do in a month. In her group, they send over 200 messages daily. I can’t keep up; it would feel like a full-time job.
However, there are great monitoring apps I have on my teen's device that alert me if anything concerning comes up, like discussions about suicide or sexual images. They can send me alerts. While it doesn't catch everything, and sometimes it alerts me to silly things I don’t care about, it provides a safeguard. It’s opened up the door for her to come to me and say, "Hey, this situation came up with a friend. I didn’t know how to handle it, and I was scared for them. What should I do, Mom?"
So, you don’t need to monitor and read every single thing on your kid's phone if you have a solid relationship with them, which is what you should aim for.
Greg: I love that there are advanced technologies available that can seek out concerning or problematic content and alert you. That's fantastic. It’s essential to do your research and understand what your phone is capable of—some platforms are better than others, so make sure you use them properly.
Tiffany: And these technologies are constantly evolving, which can be challenging to keep up with.
Greg: Absolutely. As adults, we are digital immigrants, while kids are digital natives; they are familiar with this technology from a young age. I remember my mother struggling to set the timer on the VCR, and I thought, "This is so easy!" Now, I find myself saying, "I don’t even know how to operate this thing."
Tiffany: My dad used to call me for help setting up his computer or troubleshooting issues with technicians. Now, I have to ask my kids to help me with those things.
Greg: Right?
Tiffany: Yes. I'll ask, "How do I access this?" and they’ll have it fixed in 30 seconds. Meanwhile, I’m just left wondering, "How did I get here?"
Greg: Speaking of technology, it’s interesting to consider how kids use their phones. Do they even use them as phones?
Tiffany: No.
Greg: When was the last time you had that conversation with your teen?
Tiffany: I recently told her, "If you're not responding to my texts or calls, then you're not using your phone as intended."
Greg: Exactly. They use them for so many other things. It’s important to educate them about the concerns related to some sites. Boys, in particular, are often drawn to pornography, and it’s crucial to talk about it openly. I know it can be a scary topic, but it’s important. Girls are exposed to this content at a similarly young age.
Greg: Also, online gambling is rampant and increasing. I’ve heard a lot about it in the past year and a half, especially affecting younger males aged 18 to 25, which is alarming since their prefrontal cortex isn’t fully developed yet. They can gamble online through their phones on just about anything, like guessing the color of a dress worn at the Emmys.
Tiffany: That’s so bizarre.
Let’s shift the focus to girls. He discusses how boys are mainly affected by gaming and pornography, while girls are primarily impacted by social media.
Greg: Yes.
Tiffany: He suggests setting a limit on social media access around age 16, preferably 18.
But the fact remains that their brains are still developing. I’ll admit, that even as an adult, navigating social media can be challenging. I understand complex issues and social cues, yet I still find it tough to remember that not everyone shares their deep, dark secrets online; many only post their highlights. It’s easy to fall into the comparison trap.
Teenagers don’t have the same mental capacity to grasp this, and they often compare themselves to others. They might think, “She’s cuter than me, she has a great boyfriend,” or “She’s prettier than me or smarter than me.” We also see issues like unfiltered trolling and bullying on these platforms. Allowing our kids access to social media at a young age can be quite frightening, as they aren’t equipped to handle that adult world.
Navigating Social Media's Impact
Tiffany: It’s not a kid's playground.
He emphasizes the importance of waiting until kids are older to navigate this space and having open discussions with them about it. More than anything, it’s about having those crucial conversations.
Greg: Absolutely. It’s vital to be open about concerns, especially regarding bullying. Even a good kid can engage in bullying behavior when they’re behind a screen because they’re not facing the individual. When online, they often say things they would never say in person.
Also, kids often don’t grasp that once something is online, it’s there forever. In my experience working with adolescents and emerging technologies, we’ve seen a shift from burned CDs and MP3s to smartphones. Each transition brought new challenges, like sexting. The laws surrounding sexting vary from state to state, and this can create complications, especially when kids from different states are involved.
Tiffany: Right, anything involving someone under 18 can be problematic.
Greg: Exactly. Even if it’s consensual—like, “I wanted to send this to my boyfriend or girlfriend”—if one or both parties are under 18, it’s considered the transmission of child pornography. When kids realize this, they often ask, “How can that be? It was consensual.” But the law doesn’t see it that way.
We also need to discuss the implications of social media. When we talk about why these platforms are free, it’s important to highlight that they collect vast amounts of information. They often have more data than any government, and they sell that information, which can be very profitable. This data can be used against kids in various contexts, like applying for jobs or universities. Many are being denied university access because of regrettable online behavior, often citing things they posted on their Finsta accounts, their "secret" Instagram accounts. They think, “How could they find that?” But come on, it’s not that hard to uncover.
Tiffany: And even if you send a sexually explicit picture, it can be used against you as blackmail.
And there’s also the issue of revenge porn.
Greg: Yes, unfortunately, revenge porn laws have only started to be enacted in the last couple of years. It’s absurd.
Tiffany: This is an adult world. It's not a child's playground.
Kids don’t understand the consequences. They just can’t grasp it. So, to wrap this up for our listeners, we know this is a serious issue. The book explores various ways we can get involved at a government level and push for regulations concerning agencies and apps.
If you’re listening and thinking, "Okay, but I've already given my child a smartphone, and they have social media access," it’s not too late. As a parent, you can sit down with your child and say, “You know what? I’ve learned more about this, and we’re going to step back, set some regulations, and talk about what you're being exposed to.” Having these tough conversations is crucial. It’s never too late.
Greg: I’ve found that even with the most addicted kids—maybe even more so with them—when we discuss how their usage affects their lives, they tend to be pretty honest about it. Talking about the pitfalls and problems they might face can lead to productive discussions. Involving them in the process of scaling back their usage can be eye-opening. Often, parents are surprised by how willing their children are to engage in these discussions.
Tiffany: Right, kids often recognize that there’s a problem. Research shows that when kids take breaks from social media and electronics, their depression and anxiety levels decrease. So, if you’re a parent thinking, “I could never take my kid’s phone away,” know that it’s okay to look through your child's phone and have those conversations. Just don’t do it in secret. Be upfront and say, “Hey, I’m going to check your phone.”
Some parents worry about privacy, but let’s be clear: while their phone might feel personal, they live in your house, and you’re paying for it. Until they turn 18, that’s not their right—it’s a privilege.
Greg: Exactly, it’s a big privilege.
Tiffany: As a parent, it’s your right and responsibility to teach them how to use it responsibly. Understand that when you have these conversations, you might face resistance—big emotions, meltdowns, and outbursts. That’s okay. It means you’re doing the right thing.
Let’s encourage parents to experiment with their kids: say, “Hey, as a family, we’re going to spend a week without social media or certain electronics. Instead, let’s do more unstructured play or outdoor activities.” You could even plan a camping trip where phones are off-limits.
Greg: That’s a great idea. You mentioned your daughter on that trip. Implementing enjoyable family activities, like camping where there’s no service, can help. Once kids disconnect, their personalities often start to re-emerge.
When you begin to set limitations, expect some pushback. The author talks about this in the book. Many people say, “Oh, we’ve gone too far. It’s too late.”
The Importance of Intervention
Greg: We can't just sit back and say, "Oh, it's too late; we can't do anything about it." There's a great example from history: when the Titanic sank, two other ships were eventually pulled out of the water and addressed. Recalls happen all the time. For instance, Tylenol executed a significant recall in the '80s due to tainted products, and it ultimately saved the company. Yes, recalls are costly and challenging, but we need to adjust. This intervention is our responsibility.
Tiffany: As we wrap up, can you leave our listeners with a message of hope from your experiences with families? You work in a place where kids are taken away from electronics, which leads to real meltdowns and detox. Can you share some hope for parents listening?
Greg: Absolutely. I can think of a couple of cases. One involved a child with a significant technology addiction—lots of gaming and other excessive usage. This child hated being without their phone and pushed back against the program. During a family therapy session, they spent most of the time saying, "I hate this; none of this is going to help." But by the end of the session, when I asked if there was anything else, they said, "Last night, I stepped outside and saw the Milky Way. That was cool."
Despite all the negativity, that moment indicated there was something greater—something that resonated with the idea of awe that Jonathan Haidt discusses in the book.
Another case involved a girl whose parents were cautiously optimistic about her progress. During the pandemic, she spent hours on TikTok and continued afterward. Her dad mentioned that she might go outside for only 15 to 30 minutes a day. But when she was ready to transition from our program, she and her parents were in tears, asking, "Why are you kicking me out? I don’t want to go!" I reassured them that she had graduated and completed everything she could. The parents were amazed at how uncomfortable she was at first—like she was in a foreign land—but she became so comfortable over time. I expect to see her back as a staff member in a few years.
Tiffany: I love those stories, especially the boy recognizing the Milky Way. Would he have noticed that if he had his phone with him? Probably not.
Greg: No, he would have missed it. Many people come from areas with significant light pollution, and when they get to a place where that’s absent, it’s a completely different experience. It allows them to focus on the beauty around them instead of staying up late to scroll.
Tiffany: Or even taking a picture and missing the experience itself.
Greg: I have a great story about that that I’ll share sometime.
Tiffany: And then there’s the girl finding beauty in the outdoors and reconnecting by getting offline. For our listeners, stay tuned for our next episode, where we will dive deeper into nature-based therapy. We'll discuss how to encourage our kids to spend more time outdoors with unstructured play and explore the benefits of reconnecting with nature and themselves, all while disconnecting from electronics.
The Benefits of Nature-Based Therapy
Tiffany: Thank you so much for joining us! I look forward to discussing this topic further—I could talk to you for hours about it.
Greg: It is a big topic.
Tiffany: Thank you for being here.