Beyond Apathy: How Adventure Therapy Helps Teens Re-Engage
In this final episode of the ThreePeaks Ascent podcast series, From Languishing to Living, host Tiffany Silva Herlin, LCSW, and Dr. Matt Hoag explore how adventure therapy uses nature, movement, and hands-on experiences to help teens shift from disconnection to growth and resilience. They discuss why this approach resonates with teens who struggle in traditional therapy and how everyday activities in nature can spark meaningful emotional breakthroughs. If your teen has difficulty engaging with typical therapy, this episode offers valuable insights and signs that nature-based treatment might be the right path to help them reconnect and thrive.
This heartfelt and insightful conversation sheds light on the real, grounded changes that happen in a nature-based setting. If you’ve ever wondered whether something different could help your teen reconnect and thrive, this episode is a must-listen. Call us today at 435-272-1280 to speak with an admissions specialist and get the answers you need.
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Podcast Transcript:
Introduction to Adventure Therapy
Tiffany: Welcome to the final episode of From Languishing to Living. I'm your host, Tiffany Silva Herlin, a licensed clinical social worker, and I'm interviewing Dr. Matt Hoag from ThreePeaks Ascent. Today, we're going to dive into adventure therapy. We'll break down what it is, why it works, and how nature-based residential treatment programs like ThreePeaks Ascent are helping teens transform through resilience-building experiences. We'll also talk honestly about when it might be time to seek this level of support and how to know if your teen might benefit. Please remember that this podcast is not a replacement for therapy. Always seek a mental health professional for your specific situation. Matt, thanks for joining us on this last episode. It's been a delight talking to you.
Matt: Yeah. Great. Happy to be here.
Tiffany: So let’s dive in. What is adventure therapy?
Matt: Adventure therapy is a form of experiential therapy that takes place in nature and involves a variety of activities that carry therapeutic meaning or healing value. A lot of the teens we work with haven’t found success with traditional talk therapy. They may have been resistant to it or just didn’t connect with it. Adventure therapy gives them a different way to engage—a way that doesn’t necessarily feel like “therapy” in the conventional sense.
Matt: From the outside, it might look like we’re just going on a hike, playing a game, or building something with sticks. Teenagers often ask, “Why are we doing this?” It might not look therapeutic at first. But the activities are intentionally designed to create growth opportunities—emotionally, socially, and even physically.
Matt: Many of the activities involve group tasks, which tie into what we talked about in the earlier episodes: developing relational skills. Teens have to learn how to communicate, solve problems, and collaborate—without screens, without phones. They’re practicing life skills in real time, in a natural environment.
Matt: And sometimes it’s not even the big, dramatic experiences. It could be something as simple as cleaning your sleeping area or navigating the dynamics of picking teams in a group game. Those become the real therapeutic moments. That’s the heart of experiential therapy.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: I remember one of the first times I worked in a wilderness therapy setting. We were sitting in a group, talking about who threw away their socks. And I thought, “What am I doing? Why are we having a group about socks?” But the conversation became: we only have a limited amount of gear. Why are we wasting it?
Matt: That’s the reality of nature-based therapy. Teens are learning how to take care of themselves in ways that are different from what they’re used to in the front country, or everyday life. In the backcountry, it’s just you, your group, and your gear. And if you throw away your socks or forget your rain gear and it rains, there are natural consequences. You’re cold, you’re wet, and you have to deal with it.
Matt: Those moments teach accountability, planning, and responsibility. They also teach teens to think beyond themselves. They learn to consider the needs of the group. And it shifts their mindset—from being focused on how many likes they get on a post, to how their choices impact the people around them. That’s a powerful change.
Tiffany: I love that. It helps them, like you said, disconnect and realize that there are real, natural consequences.
Experiential Learning Through Simple Tasks
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: Such a great way to explain how kids can learn from even a simple task, right? Like losing socks—and how it turns into a meaningful experience.
Matt: Yeah, and that was the beauty of it. I remember rolling my eyes at first, thinking, “Great.” But over the next six months—this was 25 years ago—I started to see the value in those simple steps or processes. Like, why are we making fire with sticks? What’s the point? Then I saw the meaning in it, especially as I did it myself or watched the students figure it out.
Matt: At first, I was like, “Yeah, I’ll try that later.” Making fire with a bow drill set, rubbing sticks together, using a hand drill—those are the kinds of things they learn out there. It’s a challenge, and it pushes them.
Matt: Most kids at first are like, “Doesn’t the staff have a lighter? Why are we doing this the hard way? When I go camping, we just dump gasoline on the wood and light it.” And honestly, it’s all about getting back to the phone faster for many of them. But out here, they learn to cook for themselves, without microwaves.
Matt: A lot of young people come to us with a very limited diet—chicken nuggets and maybe four other foods. So part of the experience is eating more balanced, nutritious food. It's not always their favorite, but it’s real, healthy food—and it helps.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: It’s part of taking care of themselves. And if they’ve been using drugs, there’s this magical three-to-four-week window where their minds begin to clear. They’ll say things like, “I haven’t thought this clearly in years.” That moment of sobriety in nature gives them a chance to rediscover who they are, without substances.
Matt: My favorite is when they say, “Why didn’t someone tell me this before?” Or, “Why didn’t I figure this out earlier?” Because they’re realizing how much more clearly they can think.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: And then they start talking about the natural high they get from being outdoors. I remember one young man—he was 17—who came back to mentor a group. He told me about how he’d recently gone through a breakup.
Matt: He said, “Yeah, we were on a hike together,” and I laughed—“You went on a hike with your girlfriend?” And he goes, “Yeah, I hike all the time now.” He told me she was breaking up with him, and he said, “You know what I did? I gave her an ‘I feel’ statement.”
Matt: He was proud that in a moment where many teens would get dysregulated, he stayed grounded and expressed himself clearly. And then he added, “Yeah, I was bummed, but whatever. I’m 17.” He had that perspective that comes with growth.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: Of course, after he told me the story, I teased him a little—“You were on a hike with your girlfriend and she broke up with you?” But we had a good laugh. It was meaningful to see how the experiential work had stuck with him—how he’d taken what he learned and continued using those tools, not just in nature but in relationships, too.
Tiffany: I love that story. It leads me to ask: how do nature and movement—and the kinds of things you’re doing out at ThreePeaks—help teens regulate their nervous systems?
Matt: Yeah, I think—
Tiffany: Especially teens dealing with anxiety and trauma.
The Impact of Nature on Mental Health
Matt: Yeah. I mean, there’s so much. It’s interesting. Some of the research we’ve done shows that over time in nature-based therapy, many young people don’t need the same number of medications they did before. They’re more balanced, more grounded. They’re not bombarded with the same stimuli and challenges they face in everyday life.
Matt: A lot of them say how much simpler life feels out there. They’re not dealing with the stress of school, or the pressure from mom and dad, or the expectations from a girlfriend, boyfriend, or their friend group—how they’re supposed to act.
Matt: So, in a way, it’s a kind of vacation—or a vacation from their problems, so to speak.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: As funny as that might sound, they don’t see it that way at first. They’re like, “This is ridiculous. Why would my parents send me to treatment?” But then, as they prepare to transition—either to another program or to go home—they’ll say, “I’m going to miss it here. It’s so quiet, peaceful, mellow.”
Matt: When they get dysregulated, they’ll ask, “Can I go take some space?” And they’ll go sit down and regulate themselves. One guy I know, just last week—he’s getting ready to go home—he was telling his mom, “I just go and journal.”
Tiffany: “What did you do with my kid?”
Matt: Right? And he’s like, “I just write down all my feelings.” She didn’t believe him at first. She wanted to see the journal to make sure he wasn’t making it up. But it was real. That tool worked for him, and he figured it out on his own.
Matt: At the end of every day at ThreePeaks—or actually, just before dinner, around five—they do something called “glads.” They ask the participants to write down things they’re grateful for, something they learned that day, something they achieved, and something they desire.
Matt: It’s not just one item per category. They can write multiple things. Some are silly—like, “I learned today that so-and-so lost his shoe”—but many are serious.
Matt: It’s a grounding exercise. There’s tons of research on gratitude and how it helps regulate mood. And when they’re writing about what they’ve learned, what they’ve accomplished, or what they’re hoping for, it shifts their focus and builds that internal awareness.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: Sometimes it’s like, “I learned that so-and-so is a jerk”—or maybe a more colorful word. That’s not the outcome we’re hoping for, but it reflects their process. They’re thinking through the day, trying to make sense of their emotions and interactions.
Matt: So being able to write and reflect becomes a big part of the emotional work they’re doing.
Tiffany: Oh, yeah. And even just writing by hand versus typing activates different parts of the brain.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: They’re conceptualizing the problem—or the success—even differently.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: That’s positive psychology.
Matt: Yeah.
Goal Setting and Planning in Therapy
Tiffany: Getting them to shift their focus.
Matt: I’ve had some boys say, “Mom and Dad, can we keep doing glads when I get home?”
Tiffany: That’s awesome.
Matt: Or, “Can we keep having a weekly planning meeting?” Because each week, they plan part of their schedule. We have a goals group where everyone talks about what they want to accomplish that week. Each person goes around, shares their goals, and at the end, we review the previous week’s goals and then look ahead.
Matt: Then we ask, “Okay, what do you want to do as a group?” Sometimes the group says, “We want to take on this challenge,” or “We want to work on our swearing,” or something similar. That kind of planning—some of the boys like it. They’ll ask, “Can we do that at home?” Because it creates a grounding, a sense of connection. Everyone knows where the other is at.
Matt: One of the favorite parts for some participants is when the staff join in and share their own goals—what they’ve accomplished, what they’ve struggled with. Like we’ve talked about in past episodes, it reinforces the idea that adults have work to do, too. Just because you’re a staff member or a therapist doesn’t mean you’ve got it all figured out.
Tiffany: Yeah. You’re not above it.
Matt: Exactly. You don’t have all your stuff together either.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: We all have things to work on.
Tiffany: Oh yeah. I love that. It creates vulnerability and connection, and that’s exactly what they need.
Matt: Yeah. And the transparency is beautiful. It models for the kids that it’s okay to struggle. Like, “Oh yeah, staff so-and-so is working through something too.” Especially our newer staff—they do some of the same assignments the participants do. So a staff member might say, “I haven’t figured out how to do this kind of fire yet,” and a kid will jump in like, “I can help you with that.”
Tiffany: Yeah. Yeah. Which, again, research shows they learn so much in a therapeutic group setting.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: Because they’re all going through the same thing.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: It’s so much more powerful than just having a therapist help them work through problems one-on-one.
Matt: And going back to where we started—this whole experiential process—sometimes the modeling and coaching go both ways. A new staff member might be coached by a student who’s been out there for a while.
Tiffany: Yeah. Oh yeah. I love that.
Matt: It’s that role reversal. Or when parents come to visit and see their child succeed at these basic, meaningful tasks, when the child is the one teaching the parent. That moment of role reversal is incredibly powerful. The child becomes an expert in how to live in a nature-based setting.
Tiffany: This gives the child empowerment and confidence.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: And I love that you’ve touched on this a few times—like when someone’s going through a detox, whether it’s alcohol or another type of addiction. I often talk to parents about how these are tools their kids are using to manage and cope with difficult emotions.
Replacing Negative Coping Mechanisms
Tiffany: So we can’t just expect to take that away and not replace it with something healthy. They’re going to keep going back to it if you don’t teach them new skills, new pathways—help them create new neural pathways in their brain to manage the stress, anxiety, depression, loneliness, or whatever they’re struggling with.
And so this nature-based therapy, or adventure therapy, is such a great way to hand them new tools—new experiences—that replace those negative and unhealthy coping mechanisms, whether it’s drugs, alcohol, video games, pornography, sex, eating, or whatever it may be.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: What a great, kind of natural setup for kids to find what really can help their brain manage and cope with those things.
Matt: In the first episode, I was talking about the idea of books and kids reading out there. As their nervous system regulates—and again, as they start becoming more thoughtful—whether it’s through weaning themselves off substances, and I say that lightly. “Addiction” might be too strong a word—we generally don’t have kids who are addicted in that sense. But a lot have used substances enough that their minds need to clear.
Matt: It’s every fourth or fifth kid who tells me, “I’ve never finished a book.”
So to then sit in that peacefulness—again, we’re talking about experiential work—to sit outside without distractions and be able to read, the pride they feel is pretty powerful.
And I’ve had several kids with dyslexia who’ve said, “I’ve never been able to read a book.” But for some reason, out there—with no pressure, not in a classroom setting—it just clicks.
Maybe I’ve assigned them a book, but I’ll ask, “Do you like that one? Do you want to try something else?” And sometimes they’ll even pass books around with each other—
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: —breaking the rules a little, because they’re technically not supposed to. But still—
That excitement about reading a book and reconnecting with it as a coping mechanism is really meaningful. Just think about the calming that it takes to read.
Some boys, in the first few weeks, will say, “I keep reading the same page over and over.” It’s hard for them to digest it at first.
But as their nervous systems start to regulate and they get more focused, not so distracted by the outside world, they begin to let go of some of those attachments, like “I wonder what Johnny’s doing,” or “Do my friends miss me?”
Matt: And then they’re able to focus more on simple things, like reading a book.
To me, that’s a symptom of what experiential therapy offers.
Tiffany: You’re making me want to come out to ThreePeaks! I’m like, “I would love to sit down and just read a book with no distractions.” That sounds incredible.
Matt: Yep.
Tiffany: Let me just come be a field staffer for a day.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: That would be fun.
Recognizing the Need for Intensive Therapy
Tiffany: So let’s move on to: How does a parent know when it’s time to consider something more intensive, like a nature-based residential treatment program, like ThreePeaks Ascent?
Matt: Yeah. I mentioned some of this earlier, but often it’s when previous forms of therapy haven’t worked or haven’t connected with or helped your child.
There’s a group of us—therapists and staff—who sometimes joke that we’ve self-selected into doing a non-traditional form of therapy because we’re living outdoors. We don’t see ourselves as fitting in boxes the same way.
And I think some young people are the same—they don’t respond to traditional talk therapy or even medication.
Matt: I think about a young person I worked with, probably about ten years ago, pre-pandemic. He hadn’t left his house for six months.
I joke now that he knew social distancing before the rest of us did.
But he came to our program and didn’t hike for the first 30 days.
Tiffany: Oh.
Matt: He wouldn’t leave the camp area. It was paralyzing in some ways.
Along the way, one of the staff—or guides—encouraged him to read this book by Irvin Yalom called Love’s Executioner. It’s a collection of stories or case studies about how therapy helps people.
This kid—he had a 130 IQ, very bright—reads one of the stories, and it hits him: the client has a responsibility to do the work.
And he says, “Why didn’t anybody tell me that?”
He’d been waiting for the meds to work, waiting for therapy to work—as if someone else was supposed to fix him.
But then it clicked, and he got excited. He started to move and engage.
He had such a victim mentality before—like, “I need to be fixed by someone else”—and such a passivity about him.
Again, this was back in 2015, even before social media became as intense as it is now. He was isolating—probably playing games. I forget what it was… maybe Magic: The Gathering, or some other specific thing kids would get hyper-focused on.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: He wasn’t leaving his room. It was probably something internet-based that still gave him stimulation.
His parents were like, “We don’t know what to do.”
So none of us were surprised when he wouldn’t leave the camp at first. But when he finally connected with the idea that it was his responsibility, that’s when the shift happened.
So again, it was a book that helped, but it was the idea of realizing, “This is on me,” that let him connect the dots.
Matt: So, back to your question—when other forms of therapy aren’t helping, I think parents know.
Some kids just do better outside, or with play, or with activity-based things.
We see that different types of young people do well in the wilderness.
Some are more athletic.
Some are completely closed off from the world, so even just being outside is a huge step.
We also see kids on the autism spectrum respond well.
And we know there’s so much research showing that activity-based approaches are great for depression and anxiety.
Matt: Vitamin D.
Exercise.
Movement-based therapies—they all help.
Tiffany: Bilateral movement—getting both sides of the body engaged. Yeah, that makes sense.
And I would think, too, that sometimes talk therapy just isn’t enough.
Kids aren’t making progress, and on top of that, the parents are worried about their electronic use.
We talked about this in our first miniseries—that parents want their kids to disconnect.
Tiffany: And like you and I have talked about, they’re disconnected not just socially, but from themselves.
So this is such a great opportunity to naturally send your kid into that environment.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: And kind of force it, in a way.
Matt: It’s a digital detox for them.
Addressing Parental Concerns About Nature Therapy
Tiffany: Oh yeah.
For a parent who feels unsure—or even guilty—about taking this step, what would you say to them?
Matt: Talk to another set of parents who’ve had their child go through nature-based therapy.
Just to get a sense of it.
Because I think talking to someone who’s been in a similar situation is incredibly helpful and comforting.
The beauty of this kind of experiential therapy is that it grounds people in really powerful ways.
And if those things resonate with the parent, then they might consider: Would this resonate with my child?
Now, a lot of us think our children aren’t like us, especially when they’re struggling, so it might be hard to imagine them doing something like this.
But that’s what makes it so effective.
Yes, we do get young people who are already skilled or comfortable in the outdoors.
But most of the teens who come to our program aren’t.
So part of the therapy becomes learning—building strength, resilience, and the ability to push themselves in ways they’re not used to.
A lot of times, due to depression, anxiety, or trauma, these kids have withdrawn from the world.
Sometimes it’s too overwhelming to even go to a therapist’s office—or they won’t get on Zoom for a virtual session.
So when more traditional approaches haven’t worked, this can be the right intervention.
Because sometimes the issue is that they don’t even have the skills to engage with traditional therapy.
We often work with young people who haven’t had success in therapy, or who have gotten good at “playing the game” of therapy.
Tiffany: They know what to say. They know how to mask.
Matt: Exactly.
And that’s where experiential therapy stands out—because the weather can’t be manipulated.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: If it’s raining, and you try to talk your way out of needing a raincoat, that doesn’t work.
You still need your raincoat. You can’t talk your way out of the rain.
There’s a natural accountability that forces honesty and growth.
Another powerful element is doing this work with other teenagers.
For many parents, one of their biggest concerns is how their child’s peers are influencing them negatively.
But in a nature-based program, peers become a positive influence.
We run what we call an “open-ended group,” where teens come and go at different times.
And that dynamic creates a powerful peer-mentorship culture.
Sometimes, the other participants are the best therapists—because they’re further along in their journey.
Hearing from someone who’s like them, who’s been where they are, can be way more powerful than hearing it from a therapist or staff member.
So the therapeutic group itself becomes a major change factor.
There might be someone who just arrived… and someone else who’s been there six or seven weeks.
That more experienced teen might still be early in their journey, but they’re usually more “bought in.”
So they can model, encourage, and even call out their peers in ways that adults sometimes can’t.
Tiffany: That’s my favorite—when the kids who I’ve worked with at residential settings get to call out the newbies.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: They’re like, “Oh, I tried that too. It doesn’t work.”
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: Or like, they know exactly what a “spade” is. They call it that because, well, I’m not sure I’m saying that right, but they’re like, “No, I’ve used that tactic before, and I’m gonna call you on it because I know it and I’ve seen it.”
Matt: The more vulgar way to say it is—it’s hard to bullshit the bullshitters.
Tiffany: There we go.
Matt: Yeah, that’s exactly it. One of my favorite moments lately at ThreePeaks has been right after the first family session—when the young person comes back, and the other kids are like, “How’d it go? What happened?”
And the response is often, “Yeah, it didn’t work.”
Sometimes they’re trying to manipulate their way out of treatment, or they’re unhappy, or maybe punishing their parents. But then the peers jump in, saying things like, “That’s not gonna work,” or, “You could try this,” or, “Here’s what I tried.”
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: And they support each other through all that. They’re curious, helpful, and they genuinely care.
That peer group is such a huge part of the therapeutic process.
Matt: Again, going back to experiential education, it’s often the same kind of experiential stuff that brought them here, but now it becomes about helping each other. The focus shifts to, “Let’s figure this out together.”
Tiffany: That makes sense. How do parents know their kids are going to be safe out in a nature-based therapy setting?
Matt: One of the benefits of ThreePeaks is the hybrid model.
They sleep in yurts on cots, and there are bathrooms and showers.
We’ve taken the best parts of nature-based therapy and combined them with a routine that’s more predictable and grounding for young people compared to some earlier models.
Having some regularity and weekly connection with parents helps ensure that their physical needs are met and that they’re safe.
Sometimes, with more nomadic models where kids move from place to place, that can be unsettling or challenging for some diagnoses.
So at ThreePeaks, they sleep in the same place week after week, which adds stability and security.
Finding the Right Program for Your Child
Matt: They’re able to get their physical needs met by showering and using bathrooms, but there’s still the opportunity to grow and develop in nature. So, while they experience some of the same challenges and build resiliency, it’s without the rawness that might overwhelm young people who haven’t had much outdoor experience.
By providing that kind of structure and support, we keep them safe but also provide enough challenge for them to learn. Going back to Corey and his book, it’s about building resiliency and learning, whether that’s through play or facing challenges, and figuring out how to take care of themselves.
ThreePeaks provides a structure that supports them without making outdoor day-to-day life too overwhelming. So yeah, if it rains, it’s important to have your raincoat. If you get dirty, you can take a shower later.
Tiffany: How can parents find a program like ThreePeaks Ascent? What resources or help are available to them? Because it’s an overwhelming world out there. A parent might say, “Okay, outpatient therapy isn’t working. My kid needs to disconnect. We need something more.” But when you Google it, there are so many options — who knows which is the best fit? How can parents navigate that?
Matt: Yeah, there’s a group of professionals called educational consultants. They’ve done the research, visited programs, and vetted them thoroughly. They have personal relationships with many programs and know when changes happen, like if a key therapist leaves or the program shifts in some way.
They keep up with programs year after year, so lots of parents hire educational consultants because it’s impossible to know from just a website or a phone call which programs are safe and effective, or which will be a good fit for their child. A friend might know one program, but an educational consultant knows 50 or 70.
Tiffany: Yeah, they’re incredibly beneficial and help parents navigate the process. They can also serve as mediators between parents and programs. If a parent doesn’t understand something about the program, or if communication with the program isn’t going well, the consultant can step in to advocate and support the family during a crisis.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: Sometimes parents are in fight, flight, or freeze mode themselves and aren’t thinking clearly because they’re in trauma.
Matt: Yeah. One organization that educational consultants affiliate with is the Independent Educational Consultant Association.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: Because they’re independent from programs like ThreePeaks, there’s no vested interest or bias. Their role is to advocate for the family, as you described, and to keep vetting programs.
Sometimes when I talk with an educational consultant about post-ThreePeaks options, they have more current information about programs—even ones I’ve worked with for years—than I do. They know if a program needs improvement or if someone important has just left.
Having those month-to-month updates is so helpful for parents in choosing a program.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: That’s often the role—or professional duty—of an educational consultant.
Tiffany: Wonderful. I want parents listening to know that there is support, help, and tools available if they’re at the point where they need to take that next step, which can be difficult, overwhelming, and scary.
Understanding ThreePeaks Ascent's Unique Approach
Tiffany: Matt, tell us — what makes ThreePeaks Ascent different or unique from other residential programs?
Matt: First of all, as we’ve been talking about, we’re an experientially oriented program, nature-based, and I think the level of clinical care and sophistication is unique. Being based outdoors allows young people to grow and develop through groundedness and play, as we’ve discussed. There’s the challenge of learning to take care of oneself, but all within a realm of safety and support—they return to the same bed every night, can shower, and have access to basic comforts.
When I talk about clinical sophistication, I mean the individual and group therapy each week, plus family calls. And those family video calls, because nature-based therapy can sometimes feel isolated—
Tiffany: So they do have video calls?
Matt: Yes, they do. Even though we’re outdoors and don’t always have LTE or cell service, we have Wi-Fi, which allows us to do weekly family video calls or family therapy sessions.
Coming from other programs I’ve worked at, it’s been powerful to start family therapy right away. Even if the young person is still pretty annoyed about being in treatment, those first sessions can be a bit rough with reactiveness, but the beautiful part is that parents get to see progress themselves as it happens, not just hearing about it from me weekly.
They still get updates from me in individual and family sessions, plus the weekly family call with just the therapist and family. This dynamic of being able to observe and witness their child’s changes over the course of treatment is, I think, a powerful and unique aspect.
When I first started at ThreePeaks, I had some trepidation about how that would go because many young people I work with aren’t quite ready for that kind of immediate family involvement.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: So, finding ways to navigate it and coaching parents through it is one of the skills that I and other therapists at ThreePeaks provide.
Regarding safety and just having a sense of how your child is doing, the ability to connect and talk to them weekly is crucial.
Tiffany: So crucial for parents.
Matt: Yes. There is scheduled alone time on those calls between parent and child, where the young person can say anything they want, unfiltered.
Tiffany: Yeah. Unfiltered.
Matt: That’s built into the process to support that kind of openness. Sometimes parents are apprehensive about that alone time.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: Because sometimes that’s when there’s a lot of reactiveness or upsetness.
Tiffany: Sometimes manipulation.
Matt: Yeah. But most parents know their child well enough to recognize that behavior. I’ve been away and stepped out so the client can talk to their parents, and halfway through, I get a text: “Can you come back? I think we’re making it worse.”
Transformative Stories from Nature-Based Therapy
Matt: And so we’re there to support. It’s not like we’re just abandoning them. That ability to stay connected with your child in a way that can be different from some other nature-based programs, where you might not have the chance to see or talk to them each week, is really important.
Tiffany: Can you share a story of a teen who transformed through the process of nature-based therapy?
Matt: Yeah, there are so many that come to mind. But I’ll narrow it down to one young man who left a couple of months ago. He came in pretty angry, pretty volatile. I think he was still dealing with recent heavy marijuana use, but mostly he was angry at his parents. He felt unseen and misunderstood by them.
Through the process of working with his peers, the staff, and therapy with me, he was able to realize that he could trust his parents again. It’s a tricky dynamic—he felt like his parents were so focused on molding him into what they wanted that he wasn’t seen for who he was.
But out there, he got good at bowing and making fires, and started to feel some real confidence in himself. Every week when he felt proud, because he didn’t think his parents trusted him, he’d often look to me and say, “Matt, can you tell them?” He almost felt like his word wasn’t enough. Over time, he trusted me enough to be his advocate, even sometimes more than trusting himself.
Tiffany: Yeah, advocating for him.
Matt: Exactly. There was such a lack of trust in adults overall. At first, it wasn’t with me, because I’m only there two days a week. But his guides and the relationships he built with them helped him start trusting adults again.
Trust wasn’t the only thing, but it was huge. Through simple things—the games we played, him picking up the guitar again, which was important to him, reconnecting with things that had meaning—he began to find himself again. He was very athletic but had given up on that.
There was one game, hacky sack, that excited him. He started to realize, “I can win, and I don’t have to rub it in others’ faces.” He’d been arrogant before, but lost his way with a lot of things.
So, in the simplicity of living outdoors and being in nature, he was able to reinvent or reconnect with himself. It’s not like we changed him; he was still him, just rediscovering who he was.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: But it helped him find those parts of himself that he’d strayed from or disconnected with. And then to connect with—sometimes it’s these 20-something staff who relate to and support them while doing their work.
Each week, as I’m writing treatment goals and creating opportunities for progress, he’d sometimes say, after two or three weeks, “Matt, that’s a stupid goal. Why are you asking me to do that?” For a while, he was trying to complete a family workbook, but wasn’t interested because he didn’t trust his parents.
He’d say, “I don’t want to send that to them. I don’t want them to get the idea that this is helping me.” He wanted to resist his parents seeing any evidence of his progress. That’s why he couldn’t advocate for himself at first. Over time, though, he gave me more permission to share, but still often said, “Don’t tell my parents. I don’t want them to think this is working the way they want.” He so badly wanted to win or prove something to them.
Then, partway through, his parents came to visit. One powerful moment was when he sat down with his dad and taught him how to make a fire with a bow drill. His dad, who’d been a high-ranking military officer—a general or something close—was very much the “guy in charge” of the family. That dynamic was part of the challenge between them.
So to see that role reversal—where the son was the expert and the dad had no clue how to do this—was pretty powerful. The son got to step into a leadership role, coaching his dad, and the dad had to show humility in a new way, different from their past.
Tiffany: He had to be in charge and teach.
Matt: Exactly. He got to shift that dynamic. And all of this happened through experiential activities and play. This kid was a great athlete, but had given up on that because he felt like nothing was ever good enough for his parents.
Tiffany: So he was languishing.
Matt: Yeah, he gave up on himself. He wasn’t necessarily depressed but more like a big “meh” attitude—like, who cares?
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: He felt like his parents just wanted him to play lacrosse so his dad could brag to his golf buddies. Like he was a trophy for them, not seen as his person. So, through this process, he was able to define his trophies—his values and progress.
Even simple things like playing guitar or, interestingly, getting into hacky sack, which maybe felt like a “hippie” activity and maybe pushed against some of his parents’ values, became important for him.
Tiffany: You’re making me want to go play again!
Matt: Yeah, it’s about pushing some of those boundaries, but rediscovering—
Tiffany: Sure.
Matt: —that fun part of him.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: Like, “I like kicking this little ball around” kind of thing.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: Or this little hacky sack.
Tiffany: A little rebellious, too, at the same time.
Matt: Exactly.
But also, getting good at some things that had meaning for him.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: And then feeling, “Okay, I can do this.”
Towards the end of his time with us, when we were discussing next steps, he wasn’t quite ready to go home yet. But he wanted to talk to his parents about that. Being able to build that trust and open up — the balance between separation and connection, and talking with them each week — was pretty powerful to see.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: Even though he wasn’t so excited to talk to them at first, it was meaningful to watch and be part of. As a therapist, finding how to support him in that space was important.
Sometimes, therapists and staff get the projection from parents, like, “F you, you’re just like my mom or dad.” Navigating that relationship differently is one of the beautiful things about experiential therapy. There’s no right answer; each day is new, and there’s an opportunity to try out different parts of ourselves.
Even we therapists are figuring it out — how to best support each person.
Tiffany: Yep.
Matt: There’s no one right answer, but a lot of things we’re trying and doing.
Tiffany: I love it. And I love hearing how nature-based therapy at ThreePeaks Ascent helps young people like this young man reconnect and find themselves again.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: But in a more complex, deeper way.
The Holistic Benefits of Nature-Based Therapy
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: Helping him grow, develop, get out of that languishing “meh” space, and reconnect with his family. What I also love about nature-based therapy is that, yes, there are structured therapy sessions and groups, which are an important part, but the entire process is therapeutic. The staff, learning to build a fire, taking care of yourself, cooking your meals, making sure you have your equipment, and dealing with the natural consequences of being outdoors.
There are so many benefits to being out in nature—meditation, being present. We’ve covered so much today. It’s incredibly impactful, healing, therapeutic—the list goes on. You’re making me want to just come out and hang out with you.
Matt: We’re hiring right now.
Tiffany: Okay!
Matt: So you might want to think about leaving your current job.
Tiffany: I’ve started to enjoy hiking on my own. I grew up on the ocean, so I do miss that, but being out here in Utah with these mountains and learning to reconnect with nature has been powerful in its way.
Matt, thank you so much for joining us today.
Matt: Absolutely.
Conclusion and Resources for Further Information
Tiffany: And thank you, Matt, for talking with us today about the benefits of nature-based therapy, shedding light on what languishing looks like, and exploring the power of play. It’s truly been a pleasure hearing your wisdom, experience, and knowledge on all of this.
To our listeners, if you’d like to learn more about ThreePeaks Ascent, please visit their website at threepeakstreatment.com. There you’ll find helpful assessment tools and can schedule a call with their admissions team to ask any questions you might have.
Thanks so much for joining us today, and hopefully we’ll get to talk again in the future.
Matt: Yeah, it’s been great to be here.
Tiffany: Thanks!