From Languishing to Living: Using Play to Counter Teenage Apathy
Play isn’t just for little kids—it’s a crucial part of teen emotional health. In this episode of From Languishing to Living, host Tiffany Silva Herlin, LCSW, joins Dr. Matt Hoag, Ph.D., to explore the powerful role of play in teen development. They discuss how unstructured, spontaneous play fosters emotional resilience, connection, and growth—benefits that screen time and rigid routines often miss. With examples from nature-based therapy at ThreePeaks Ascent, they offer practical ways parents can reintroduce play into their teens' lives and model joy in their own. Whether your teen is withdrawn or just needs more lightness, this episode provides insights and tools to bring more fun and connection into your family.
Play isn’t just for little kids—it’s a critical part of healthy adolescence and even adult life. Tiffany and Dr. Hoag offer practical tips and personal stories that show how reclaiming play can lead to deeper connections and healing. Listen now or read the transcript to discover how you can bring more joy, laughter, and lightness into your family’s routine. Searching for ways to help your struggling teen? Call us now at 435-272-1280 to learn more.
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Podcast Transcript:
Introduction to the Importance of Play
Tiffany: Welcome back to our podcast From Languishing to Living. In today's episode, we're talking about something that seems simple—but is actually profoundly therapeutic: play. Yes, even for teenagers.
I'm your host, Tiffany Silva Herlin, a licensed clinical social worker. I'll be speaking with Dr. Matt Hoag, a clinical psychologist from ThreePeaks Ascent, about why play is critical for development, mental wellness, and connection—and how we, as parents, can reintroduce play, creativity, and joy into our teens' lives, even in small ways.
Please remember, this podcast is not a replacement for therapy. Always seek help from a qualified mental health professional for your specific situation.
All right, Matt, thanks for coming back.
Matt: Great to be here.
Tiffany: I'm excited to dive into this. Let’s talk about play.
Matt: Okay!
Tiffany: You all get to play out in nature, which I think is everyone’s dream job.
Matt: Yeah, definitely. Nature-based therapy is a fantastic place to work and be. It's funny—sometimes my kids laugh at me when I put on a pair of pants because they're so used to seeing me in shorts. They’ll say, "Why are you dressing up, Dad?"
At ThreePeaks, we might be playing hacky sack, throwing a Frisbee, going mountain biking—there are all kinds of activities. We use these as effective ways to reintroduce play, or to help young people reconnect with that playful part of themselves while they’re in treatment.
Tiffany: A lot of people think play is just for little kids. Why does it still matter for teens?
Matt: It matters for all of us, actually.
Tiffany: True.
Matt: The reality is, in our desire to over-schedule, over-plan, and constantly stay productive, we've moved away from both nature and play. And those are two things that are essential for our well-being.
For teens, many of them have stopped playing because they think that’s what growing up means. And I don’t mean they’re consciously thinking, "I have to grow up the right way." It’s more like, "That’s kid stuff. I’m not a baby anymore."
Tiffany: Right. "I'm not a baby."
Matt: Exactly. Instead, they might turn to video games—maybe first-person shooters—or they get really caught up in competitive sports. And sometimes, as parents, we unintentionally contribute by overplanning and overscheduling their lives.
Creative Play in Nature-Based Therapy
Matt: And we often have them going from one activity to another. There’s just not enough downtime—not enough opportunities to simply be and to enjoy. One of the beautiful things about ThreePeaks and nature-based therapy is that it gives teens the chance to relax, be creative, and use their imagination.
I’m struck by how something as simple as a group getting excited about playing chess can be so powerful. They’ve drawn a chessboard on a piece of wood, and sometimes they carve or make their own pieces. Other times, they just use a piece of paper if they don’t feel like doing any carving. But either way, they get really into it. And these are pretty simple activities—ones you might think wouldn’t interest a teenager.
Tiffany: Yeah. We talked about boredom in our last episode. One thing I wanted to point out is that when someone’s bored, that’s when your brain actually starts to kick in.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: It’s when they can become the most creative.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: So if you’re bored—or if your kids are bored—let them be bored! Some amazing creativity (and sometimes a little mischievousness) can come out of that. I have a two-year-old, so if it’s quiet and she’s bored, I know I’m in trouble, because that means she’s come up with something creative.
Matt: Something’s being broken into in your house—one of those drawers!
Tiffany: Yes, exactly. But seriously, it’s a good thing. In the book, he talks about a couple of studies that really caught my attention. One point he makes is that play actually serves as a kind of protection for both kids and adults—especially for kids and teens going through difficult life situations.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: It helps buffer the trials they’re facing. If they come from a low-income background, if they’re living in poverty, or if they don’t have the family support system they need at home—play can give them a way to escape and navigate those complexities of life, even at a young age.
Matt: Yeah. In many ways, play helps with balance. It brings balance to our lives. Think about growing up—there was dedicated playtime, not only in kindergarten but throughout elementary school.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: And that was important. Partly, I think, because the teachers needed a break from the children! But really, the idea was to give kids a chance to go outside, to play on the playground.
We don’t do that anymore.
Tiffany: Yeah. It’s all structured now.
Imagination and Play in Adult Life
Matt: As teenagers—or even adults—play just isn’t something we typically do anymore.
Tiffany: Sure.
Matt: But the question is, how do we tap back into our imagination? How do we do things that push us out of our comfort zones and away from the rigid expectations of how we think we should be living—whether as adults or teenagers?
And again, like we talked about in the last episode, play also helps pull us away from our devices. One of my favorite examples is when people play Pokémon GO. They're walking around with their phones, collecting characters. So yes, they’re on their devices—but they’re also outside, which is a step in the right direction.
It’s not exactly the kind of play we’re aiming for, but it does engage that imaginative, playful, even silly part of ourselves that we often forget about. We get so caught up in all the things we feel we have to do—whether it's work, taking care of kids, or meeting expectations. We stop making space for play in our own lives.
Tiffany: Yeah. Some of my kids have really gotten into Dungeons & Dragons.
Matt: Uh-huh, yeah.
Tiffany: And back when I was growing up, that was considered a pretty nerdy thing to do.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: But now it’s actually cool!
Matt: Okay, yeah.
Tiffany: And I think it’s so great because it’s not a structured video game—it allows for real creativity. It’s like a choose-your-own-adventure game.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: It’s such a cool outlet for teens to use their imagination and play.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: It’s been really fun to watch my kids embrace that kind of play and get immersed in that world.
There are a couple of studies Corey mentions in his book that really stood out to me. One was a popular preschool study from the 1960s. It compared two teaching styles: direct instruction versus a self-initiated, play-based approach. The study found that while direct instruction led to greater short-term academic gains, the play-based approach supported stronger long-term outcomes—especially in higher-order thinking skills and social-emotional development.
It also suggested that play-based learning could reduce the need for special education later in life. So, basically, it showed just how essential play is in our schools and in a child’s overall development.
Matt: Yeah. If you think about it, so many kids today are guided by their devices—by whatever app or algorithm is telling them what to do next. And so we’re losing some of that spontaneity and creativity that comes from unstructured time.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: Instead of thinking for themselves, kids are being shaped by whatever’s trending or what they think they have to do to keep up with their peers. Sometimes, the most creativity we see is just the variety of videos or selfies they’re posting.
Tiffany: Or the latest TikTok dance, right?
Matt: Yeah. And sure, that’s a form of creativity—but what we’re really talking about here is a different kind. It’s the kind that happens when kids engage with each other directly. When they’re laughing, playing, and making up games or stories together.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: It’s when they turn the playground into a spaceship, or the trees into a castle. It’s when they say, “Hey, I’m this character,” or “You be that one,” and they run with it. That kind of silliness and imagination is what that research is pointing to—it helps kids develop the ability to think for themselves and explore the world in more flexible, creative ways. It’s not rigid. It’s not dictated by an app. It’s organic.
Tiffany: Right. And actually, in The Anxious Generation—which we talked about in our previous miniseries—he pointed out that today’s playgrounds have become so structured.
Matt: Yeah.
Nostalgia and the Value of Unstructured Play
Tiffany: And he talked about how when things are too structured and supervised, kids actually lose out. They need more opportunities for self-initiated play.
One of my favorite childhood memories was making daisy chains out in a field for hours or pretending we were digging for dinosaur bones in a dugout. That kind of imaginative play is so important. It shapes who we become as adults—and we often lose that playfulness as we grow up.
Joe Frost, who I believe is a play psychologist, found that children who are deprived of play tend to show lower resilience in tough situations. They also struggle more with self-control and have a harder time relating to others socially and emotionally. His research highlights how play is essential—not just for childhood—but for building a healthy, capable future as adults.
Matt: Yeah. I think about the play that happens at ThreePeaks. Even though these are teenagers, you could say that some of what they're doing is still play. And a number of researchers talk about play being a child’s “work”—it’s how they grow, learn, and develop.
For teens, school may be their formal work, but play is still incredibly important. It helps them build balance in their lives. And beyond that, play teaches them how to cooperate, how to resolve conflict, how to be flexible with one another.
Sometimes it’s as simple as sharing a ball or navigating a disagreement. But those little interactions are where social and emotional learning really happens. If all we do is move kids from one structured activity to the next, they miss the downtime—the space to just be—and to learn about themselves in unstructured, spontaneous ways.
Tiffany: Yeah, I love that. I remember learning in my child development classes that play is how children learn. They don’t always have the vocabulary to express what they’re going through, so they use play to process their experiences.
Matt: Right.
Tiffany: Through play, they can work out things they’re struggling with—emotions, conflicts, even big questions about the world around them. It helps them conceptualize and make sense of life.
Matt: Sometimes it’s as simple as a kid playing with little toy characters—maybe ones they got from a Happy Meal. And the characters start acting out scenarios: “This kid doesn’t like those kids anymore, so now they’re over here,” or “He’s mad, so he’s doing this.”
What they’re really doing is processing something—maybe a fight they had at school or an argument with a sibling. That kind of roleplay is how they explore relationships, understand social dynamics, and even cope with stress.
Stress Relief Through Imaginative Play
Matt: Just because we’re adults doesn’t mean we’ve figured out how to handle stress. A lot of us are still learning how to manage it. And kids—when they’re playing and imagining—they’re actually working on those skills. Sometimes they tell us exactly what they’re processing through their play.
Like one of my grandkids—he’s really into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. They’ve made a comeback, of course. He’ll go through each character: “This one does this, that one does that.” And he tells this whole elaborate story. It’s creative, and the characters don’t even have to match their original roles anymore. It’s just about having fun, thinking deeply, and exploring how relationships work.
Tiffany: Yeah, I love that. I’m actually in the middle of potty training my two-year-old. And she has this rabbit and a doll—and now she walks them through the whole process. She’ll wash their hands in the sink, she’ll say, “Ra-ra has to go potty now,” and she’ll pretend to run them to the bathroom. She’s processing her experience through play. It’s really cool to watch.
So, what does healthy play look like for a teenager?
Matt: It’s really anything that’s not built into their structured life. School, sports, activities—those are all good, but they’re also scheduled and directed. Healthy play for teens is more spontaneous.
It might sound funny, but for some of us growing up, that meant stuff like toilet papering a friend’s house—obviously within safe and respectful boundaries—or sneaking out to do something just a little rebellious. It was about doing something out of the ordinary, something creative and a little unexpected.
Sometimes it’s building a fort in the backyard with leftover scraps from the construction site next door. Just making something out of nothing. That kind of out-of-the-box thinking taps into a different part of their brain and helps them grow.
And like we mentioned earlier, hobbies can be a great source of this kind of play. You brought up Dungeons and Dragons, and I’ve still got my first edition manuals from when I was a kid.
Tiffany: That’s awesome! My daughter would totally geek out with you over that.
Matt: Yeah, it was such a cool way to connect. You’d step into these adventures, not knowing what was going to happen next. The dungeon master sets up the situation, and suddenly you're working together to figure out how to beat a monster or navigate a trap. Each character brings something different to the table.
It was fun—but also a way to practice dealing with stress and uncertainty in a low-stakes setting. I remember staying up until three in the morning on the weekends—before we could drive—just playing and imagining together.
The Importance of Spontaneity in Teen Play
Matt: And then we stopped playing because we got excited about girls at the time. But those kinds of playful activities—where you stretch yourself and think about the world differently—that’s what we’re really trying to encourage teens to do today. Finding ways to break out of their usual routines and experience something new.
Tiffany: Yeah. Some of my favorite memories growing up were playing games out in the summer fields at night—like capture the flag in the dark. That stuff was just the best. Our kids need more of that. They need to be out in nature, disconnected from their phones, doing something spontaneous.
Matt: Yeah. It reminds me of shooting hoops at the elementary school at 10 o’clock at night. There was something thrilling about that—maybe because you weren’t really supposed to be there. Obviously, you want it to be safe, but those moments that feel just a little bit outside the ordinary can be really exciting.
Tiffany: I totally get that. We used to go to the beach every year, and one of our traditions became going for a night swim around 8:00 p.m. It wasn’t that late, and our parents knew, but it still felt adventurous because it wasn’t the usual routine.
Matt: Right. And with teens, a lot of that kind of play is led by their own imagination and creativity. It’s not just about being in a structured environment or following a set schedule. It might be something like taking a nighttime walk or just hanging out on the porch talking.
It’s often about stretching their boundaries in safe ways, but more importantly, it’s about learning to think for themselves. That’s the meaningful part of play. It supports their individuation—that process of becoming their own person. It’s not just about doing what adults tell them or sticking to what they “should” be doing, like planning for college or building a résumé. It’s about discovering who they are through exploration.
Tiffany: Absolutely. And I think it’s really important for our listeners—especially parents—to understand that teens pushing boundaries is normal adolescent development. We want them to do that—within safe limits, of course.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: So if they sneak out to teepee a friend’s house, that’s not the end of the world. Sure, we want to respect other people’s property and follow the rules, but overall, that kind of harmless mischief is way better than more dangerous alternatives—like doing drugs, staying up all night gaming, or getting pulled into toxic online spaces. What they’re doing is called “risky play,” and it’s actually really important for their growth.
Play and Brain Development
Tiffany: And these are risks teenagers take that won’t cause harm or long-lasting effects, because that’s how they figure things out, like you were saying. So let’s talk about how play ties into brain development, regulation, and resilience. In the book Corey wrote on languishing, he mentions that the definition of play includes that it must be optional—like you said, it has to be spontaneous and can’t be mandated.
Stuart Brown, a psychiatrist and head of the National Institute of Play, argues that unstructured play is essential to our flourishing as adults.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: I want our listeners to hear that again—not just children flourishing, but adults flourishing.
Matt: Right. I think he even cites play as one of the five “vitamins” essential to wellbeing or something like that.
Tiffany: So why do we need to play as adults?
Matt: Yeah, I think it’s for much the same reason kids and teens need it. When we’re adults, we’re so focused on responsibilities, on schedules and stress, we need that balance. Play helps us unwind, taps into that creative part of our brain that doesn’t always fit into our structured, cognitive, task-oriented lives.
We overplan and overcommit, sometimes pride ourselves on being busy, but we don’t always make space to just be present with ourselves—to relax and connect with parts of ourselves beyond responsibilities. Whether that’s creative play or something silly like dressing up for Civil War reenactments, or getting outside on a mountain bike or hike—finding time to reconnect with nature or our playful side is vital for our balance.
If we don’t get enough play, I think we risk languishing—feeling stuck in that “meh” place instead of flourishing. And flourishing, as Corey talks about, involves finding time to be entertained and engaged in ways that aren’t just scheduled or forced.
Tiffany: That’s interesting, because he also talks about passive leisure versus active leisure. I really like that distinction. We’ve moved into this passive leisure where we sit and consume—whether it’s driving somewhere, scrolling on our phones, or watching movies. Leisure used to mean doing things, being active.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: But now it’s mostly sitting and consuming content. And just because something is considered fun or leisure doesn’t mean it’s as productive or fulfilling.
Matt: Right. We live in a materialistic world where everything’s handed to us. Like, we pull up to a drive-thru and get our food. Sometimes, for me, cleaning the kitchen can actually be meditative—it’s something I have to be present with, and it helps me unwind.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: But nowadays, with streaming services, we can binge-watch entire seasons in a weekend. We get totally consumed by it, but we haven’t really done anything. We enjoy it, but it’s passive. Like you said, we’re just being fed content.
Sometimes I’ll spend five hours watching shows with my wife, and I think, “That was a great evening,” but we didn’t actually do anything together. We just hit play and went from one episode to the next. We enjoyed the time, but didn’t truly connect.
The Impact of Social Media on Experiences
Tiffany: That’s the same thing with social media. We consume all this social media, which is connecting, but we don’t really connect with people. And like I said in the last episode, Corey talks about the moment you start thinking about posting that cool vacation photo and worrying about how many likes you’ll get, it stops being a real experience.
He also talks about collecting experiences, not things.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: Make play part of your trip, but not a trip that’s going to stress you out. He mentioned that too, right? Sometimes we get so consumed with expensive, lavish trips that we feel we have to post pictures for everyone to see. Then it stops being fun and just becomes a thing to check off.
It really doesn’t matter if you book a five-star hotel in Hawaii or a three-star in Nashville. If you’re stressed out or your kids are screaming in either place, it’s not going to be enjoyable.
Matt: Yeah, sometimes we’re so focused on letting other people know how cool our trip is...
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: ...that we’re not actually present in the experience itself.
Tiffany: Exactly.
Matt: We’re not really there because we’re spending an hour or two editing photos to make sure they’re perfect. We take 500 pictures and post maybe 10, and that can take hours—and it consumes us in the very moment we’re supposed to be enjoying.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Matt: So the question is, are you truly present with even that five-star experience?
Tiffany: Exactly. And I want to circle back to cleaning the kitchen.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: We can actually start bringing more play into our lives in small ways—even in chores. I love putting on my favorite music with my kids and having kitchen dance parties while we’re cleaning or cooking.
It’s not just a task or a chore anymore—the moment we loosen up and start giggling, it becomes fun. Anyone can giggle!
My husband would say, like you mentioned, it’s a stress release. But I also think it’s emotional regulation.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: When I’ve had a really tough week, I hit what I call the bewitching hour at 10 p.m., and I get the giggles. I turn into this goofy 12-year-old girl, and my husband’s like, “You’re broken.” But really, my body just needs to let go.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: Whatever’s happened during the week, we all need those moments to release stress, reconnect with our inner child, and help regulate the emotions we’ve carried around. Those emotions can be heavy—stressful, hard—and they contribute to languishing, burnout, depression, and anxiety. All those feelings we get when we’re overburdened.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: If we don’t find moments to let loose and be a kid again, we’re going to stay stuck in that languishing place.
Matt: One assignment I often give people in treatment is called the Mandala. It asks them to look at the different parts of themselves.
One that often stands out is the 8- or 10-year-old self—the part you were just describing. I sometimes joke that my wife isn’t always a fan of my 7-year-old self—other than the goofy, silly parts—because sometimes that’s also my immature self.
That’s my excuse for being childish or making fart jokes—the kind of humor some men never quite grow out of.
So, it’s about being aware that we have different parts of ourselves. In terms of play, that might mean embracing the goofy, silly, playful side that lets go and doesn’t get caught up in everything else.
There’s also maybe an artist side, or other parts we can recognize. The important thing is understanding those different aspects of self.
Exploring Different Aspects of Self
Matt: Sometimes, we emphasize certain parts of ourselves more than others. With that Mandala assignment, I have people look at their different parts before treatment, where they are during treatment, and then how they hope to see those parts emphasized in the future—whether that’s a year from now, five years, or as an adult.
In nature-based therapy, they often reconnect with those parts—whether it’s their younger self or maybe an athlete side, depending on the activities and their relationship with those parts. Sometimes, they’ve drifted away from those selves.
It’s about imagining how they want their constellation of selves to come together around their core.
This really ties back to your question about play’s importance for teenagers—and us as adults. How do we reconnect with those parts of ourselves? Whether it’s hobbies, interests, or something like Dungeons & Dragons, it’s about remembering and honoring those parts, even if we think they’re “beneath” us now that we’re older. Like, “I’m 16, I don’t do those things anymore.”
Tiffany: I love that play helps reconnect us with key parts of ourselves. That’s exactly what Corey talks about in his book. The Mandala example really helps people conceptualize who they are and reconnect with themselves after that disconnect.
Corey also discusses how play helps us reconnect with those parts of ourselves that get lost under adult responsibilities—which teenagers feel acutely. He talks about college students and the FOMO—how they’re so stuck on what they’re missing out on that they forget to just be kids.
Play reconnects us with imagination and helps us approach life with excitement, energy, and humor again.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: It really helps us discover and appreciate ourselves and beauty, boosting overall life satisfaction.
Matt: What I really appreciated about Corey’s book was how he changed his class to meet students where they were as young adults. His class became more interesting, people opened up, some even cried—not because it was meant to be therapeutic, but because he met them where they were and related to them.
He used things like YouTube videos to connect and engage, which parallels what we try to do in treatment—help young people connect with parts of themselves they might be neglecting.
As you said, students are so focused on moving to the next thing.
Sometimes, in wilderness therapy, I hear young people say, “I’m 16, I’m practically an adult,” acting like they have it all figured out. But if we treat teens like adults too soon, we might be misguiding them by not allowing them to still be 16.
Especially those who have faced trauma and had to grow up fast. Helping them reconnect with aspects of themselves—whether it’s play, art, or just fun activities like kicking a hacky sack—gives them a break from heavy thoughts and trauma. It lets them be themselves and experience joy again.
Using Play in Therapeutic Settings
Tiffany: That leads me to this question—how do you use play at ThreePeaks to help people who are going through trauma or are emotionally shut down?
Matt: It's interesting, because out there, we’ll often have a series of group therapy sessions—some are more psychoeducational. After a while, our guides and staff pick up on the energy and know when it’s time to move.
Sometimes that means playing hacky sack, gathering wood for a fire, or even just watching the sunset together. The idea is to keep students connected with their physical self.
In nature-based therapy, we’re not just sitting in a room—we’re inviting students to live these new coping skills, to experience different parts of themselves through the rhythm of the day-to-day out there.
Each day, there’s time set aside for play, activity, hiking, or being in nature—experiences that allow healing to happen, especially when you're working through something with others.
Of course, there’s tension sometimes—someone doesn’t want to participate, or there’s conflict over a game. Maybe someone gets mad because their shot was blocked on the basketball court, or someone threw their Frisbee too far.
These are reenactments of the same stressors and challenges they face in daily life—but now they’re learning to navigate them differently.
Your original question was about how we invite them into that. And the answer is—it’s part of the structure. It's built into the program because it's that essential to the therapeutic process.
Tiffany: I love that—helping them rediscover play and joy through simple activities that aren’t just about talking or sitting still. You're creating experiences that help them reconnect through nature. That’s so powerful.
I really love hiking therapy—I call it that when I’ve had a hard day and just head into the mountains. It’s playful for me. I love the leaves blowing, the quiet, the serenity. And I end up processing really tough emotions during those hikes.
Like after my dad passed away, I went on a lot of hikes to work through that grief. I’d take my daughters with me and we’d look for colorful rocks or put our feet in the cold water. That kind of play was so healing for me.
I want to highlight some research too—from Dr. Stuart Brown, the psychiatrist who founded the National Institute of Play. He reviewed evidence showing that play deprivation in the first 10 years of life is linked to a long list of negative outcomes—depression, aggression, impulsivity, inflexible thinking, emotional dysregulation, and a lack of meaningful relationships.
Play is a biological need. We never outgrow it. We should always stay young at heart.
So my next question for you is: How can parents support or invite more play into their teen’s life—especially when the teen is resistant?
Matt: Yeah, I think we’ve talked about this a few different ways today, but it really comes down to connecting with your child through their interests, not just yours.
For years, I tried to get my son into mountain biking because I love it—but that was never really his thing. He was open to riding a bike around the city, just not on the trails. Probably because I’d come home with scrapes and bruises from crashing and posted videos of it, so it looked more painful than fun.
So it’s about meeting them where they are. That might mean sitting down and playing the video game they’re into, or going to a concert you wouldn’t normally choose. I’ve definitely been to some teenage concerts I wasn’t all that interested in. But it was about connecting with them on their terms.
The hope is, if we show interest in their world, they’ll be more open to joining us in the things we enjoy too—those more family-oriented moments.
I also think playing as adults is a powerful way to model it for them. If I’m never outside shooting hoops, why would my kids want to come outside and play basketball? It doesn’t have to be about getting them to do everything we like, but if they see us enjoying life, having fun, staying active, it shows them that play matters at every age.
As far as inviting them into play, I think it’s about creating space for it. Our kids, especially as they get older, are going to say no sometimes. That’s normal. But if we keep creating opportunities, eventually some of those moments will land.
Sometimes it’s as simple as going out to eat or driving through In-N-Out and catching them in a good mood on the way home. That’s when they might open up about something that’s really going on in their life.
It’s not always the big planned moments. A lot of the time, it’s the little in-between ones. We just have to make sure we’re not too busy going from one scheduled activity to the next to notice them. We have to slow down, enjoy being together, and create space for connection to happen naturally.
Creating Family Routines for Connection
Tiffany: Yeah, which can be hard when you’ve got teenagers and a busy family. But what you said really sparked some ideas for me. A couple of my daughters love to read, and they’re really into specific books. So I’ve ended up reading a lot of kid and young adult books I normally wouldn’t have picked up on my own.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: But because they’re excited about them and won’t stop talking about them, I want to be able to join in those conversations. So I dive in—even if it’s not my genre, I’m in. Let’s do it. We’ve also gotten into Star Wars, watching Marvel movies together, and now my husband has them hooked on Mission Impossible.
Matt: That’s fun.
Tiffany: And now they’re all excited about the new movie coming out. So those shared interests help us bond. One thing I started when my kids were little was a “warm fuzzy jar.” Every time they did something kind or helpful, I’d say, “Go put a fuzzy in the jar!” And once it filled up, we’d go do something fun as a family.
Matt: Nice. Yeah.
Tiffany: It became a way to reward kindness with connection. And another thing I tell parents: plan a trip where there’s no Wi-Fi. Go camping. Go on a cruise and don’t pay for the internet. Just create space where your kids are off their phones and you pull out the card games.
Some of my favorite childhood memories are from trips like that—walking on the beach at night with my parents or playing Uno until we were laughing so hard we were crying. Those moments stick.
Matt: Yeah, I think that’s great. We did something similar. When my son—he’s 20 now—was younger, we started Tuesday night Uno. That was our night.
Tiffany: I love that.
Matt: And sometimes we didn’t even end up playing Uno—it might be another game. But it was our time, even if he was being ridiculous and I wanted to strangle him. Not literally, of course. But you know how teenagers can be.
Tiffany: Oh, I know.
Matt: But we still played. We still showed up. And over the years, that little tradition became this consistent thing we could rely on. Even during those rough teenage years—16, 17, 18—we kept it going, most Tuesday nights, all the way through high school.
It was a routine that helped us connect. And I think those kinds of rhythms, those built-in moments of togetherness, can be really powerful for building your family culture.
Tiffany: Yeah, it becomes part of who you are as a family.
Following Your Teen's Lead in Play
Tiffany: One last thing I want to point out—I loved taking a play therapy class during my master’s program. It really stuck with me because it taught us that, as adults, we often enter a child’s world and say, “Hey, let’s do this,” and then we take over. We start directing the play, telling them how to use the toys, how the story should go.
But in play therapy, we’re taught to step back and follow the child’s lead. I think that applies to teens, too. Sometimes I’ll ask my husband, “How did you get so-and-so to open up to you?” And he’ll say, “I just didn’t pressure him. I just listened and followed his lead.”
And I’m like, “What?! I get two words from our kid in the car!” But that’s the difference—he just listens. And I think that’s genius. We don’t always need to steer the interaction. We can let them guide it. That takes so much pressure off the need to “connect.”
So with that in mind, what’s one thing you’d want to leave our listeners with about the idea of play?
Matt: I think we take ourselves way too seriously. We live in a world that’s all about being busy—our jobs, our to-do lists, our productivity. And often our identities get wrapped up in that. So this silly, playful side of us? It gets muted.
It goes back to what we talked about earlier—when we mute any part of ourselves, whether it’s our emotions or our ability to play, we lose something valuable.
So I’d invite listeners to ask themselves: How do you let your playful side show up? How do you invite your kids into that?
When my son was younger, I had this one hat I’d wear when I played the role of “James the Butler.” He could order me around, and it was hilarious. It was a total role reversal. I looked ridiculous. And that was the point—Dad’s wearing the dumb hat, so clearly, he’s in a goofy mood.
And yeah, as he got older, he wasn’t as into it. But those moments stuck. They were little invitations: “Dad’s not being so serious right now. Dad’s approachable.”
Because honestly, sometimes I wasn’t. Sometimes I was in a bad mood, or I wasn’t showing up well as a parent. But those playful moments—they helped balance that out. They let him see another side of me.
And I think that’s such a gift we can offer our kids. They already get to be silly and playful with their friends. But letting them see that part of us—it matters. It builds connection. It shows them it’s okay to let their guard down, too.
Tiffany: I love that. It goes right back to doing our own work—being vulnerable, connecting with ourselves—so we can really show up for our kids.
Reconnecting with Playfulness Through Media
Tiffany: If parents are having a hard time being creative or figuring out how to let loose—go watch the TV show Bluey. Seriously. You’re never too old. I have teenagers who love that show. We’re all obsessed with it at my house.
It’s just so good for all ages, and it really shows how important it is for adults to reconnect with themselves and their kids through play.
Matt: Yeah.
Tiffany: Thank you so much, Matt, for coming on and talking with me. I could talk to you for hours. You’re incredibly engaging, and I love picking your brain about these topics.
Thanks for walking us through the power of play and why it’s such an essential part of parenting.
For our listeners—stay tuned for the next episode, where we’ll explore how adventure therapy helps teens thrive. We’ll dive into why parents choose it and how to know when it’s the right step for your family.
Thanks again for joining us!