Disconnecting to Reconnect: The Benefits of Nature Therapy
Join therapists Tiffany Herlin, LCSW, and Greg Allred, ACMHC, in this podcast episode as they explore how nature-based therapy at Three Peaks Ascent helps teens break free from technology addiction and thrive in the digital age. Discover how disconnecting from screens and embracing outdoor experiences can reduce stress, build resilience, and foster personal growth. They discuss the mental health benefits of nature, managing digital withdrawal, and developing healthy habits. Parents will gain practical strategies to help their teens overcome anxiety, build social skills, and grow through awe-inspiring moments in nature.
Whether you're considering Three Peaks Ascent or simply looking for alternative approaches to help your struggling teen, this episode offers hope, practical advice, and a fresh perspective on addressing the challenges of raising teenagers in our digital age. Join us as we explore how nature can be a powerful tool in helping your teen overcome anxiety, improve social skills, and develop resilience. Help Your Child Heal: Call 435-272-1280
Introduction
Tiffany: Welcome back to the podcast. I’m Tiffany Herlin, a licensed clinical social worker, and today I’m joined again by Greg Allred, an AMCHC from Three Peaks Ascent. Their program offers short-term, nature-based residential treatment for teens aged 13 to 17, with potential insurance coverage. A quick reminder: this podcast isn’t a replacement for therapy, so please consult a mental health professional for your specific needs. Thanks for joining us again, Greg.
Greg: Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Tiffany: I could have talked to you much longer last time. We covered a lot.
Greg: It’s a big topic.
Tiffany: Absolutely. For our listeners, we discussed the book The Anxious Generation and how technology—phones, social media, gaming, and pornography—affects kids' brains. Childhood has shifted from play-based to screen-based, which can cause a lot of anxiety for parents. Today, let’s offer some hope.
Greg: Sounds great.
Disconnecting to Reconnect: The Role of Nature
Tiffany: We talked off-air about some interesting ideas I’d love to revisit, but for this episode, let’s focus on "disconnecting to reconnect." How is nature-based therapy different from traditional talk therapy?
Greg: We use the same therapeutic approaches—CBT, DBT, EMDR—but in a natural setting. The kids live in an area surrounded by nature, far from civilization. It’s an ideal space to apply those methods without distractions like electronics, which none of the kids have access to during their time with us.
Tiffany: They’re completely cut off from electronics?
Greg: Yes, they are. It’s a short-term program, so eventually, they’ll go back home or move on to the next step, where technology might be reintroduced. While we do use technology for family therapy or calls, the kids don’t have personal devices.
Tiffany: So it’s like a digital detox, reconnecting them with nature. Your program is residential, but nature-based therapy can also be done in outpatient settings, right? Like meeting in a park instead of an office?
Greg: Exactly. The idea is to use nature as a therapeutic tool. It’s a great way to improve mental health by removing distractions and reconnecting with something familiar but often forgotten. For some, it’s uncomfortable at first, but it’s highly effective. A common approach in nature-based therapy is exposure therapy, where people gradually face their fears in a controlled, supportive environment.
If someone experiences anxiety in an outdoor environment, they can start small—like visiting a nearby park. Go there, sit for a while without any technology, and just be with yourself. It’s a simple, effective way to begin.
Tiffany: That’s a great starting point. It could be as simple as visiting a nearby park, or as immersive as heading out to where you guys are, in the desert of Southern Utah, near the national parks. You mentioned the idea of "returning home" off-air—what do you mean by that?
Greg: When I say "returning home," I’m referring to reconnecting with the natural world. As humans, we’ve spent most of our existence outdoors. For centuries, we lived in nature, whether for survival or recreation. But in recent decades, we’ve become disconnected, spending more time indoors and on technology, especially our kids.
By returning to nature, we’re reconnecting with an environment that’s deeply familiar to us as a species. Studies show people are naturally drawn to these environments. That’s why you often see images of waterfalls or forests in buildings and mental health facilities—they make us feel at ease.
It can be uncomfortable at first, especially if you’re not used to it or worry about the dangers, but it’s still where we’re from. Once people get past that initial discomfort, they usually adapt quickly and feel a sense of comfort they’ve been missing for a long time.
Scientific Benefits of Nature on Mental Health
Tiffany: I’ve found that when life gets tough, I naturally seek the outdoors more—hiking and exploring nature. Living in Utah, there’s so much to explore, but I didn’t get into hiking until later in life when I was going through my challenges. At first, it felt unfamiliar, but at the same time, it felt like, "This is where I find peace and calm. This is where I escape the noise and reconnect with myself." There's a lot of scientific research supporting the positive impact of nature on mental health. I read a book on nature-based therapy, and it was full of stats about how reconnecting with nature can benefit kids, adults, and adolescents.
Greg: Yeah, I completely agree.
Tiffany: The research shows that spending time outdoors reduces stress, anxiety, and depression, and fosters mindfulness and a stronger connection with yourself.
When we face mental health struggles, we often disconnect from our inner world and focus on the chaos outside. But what we need is to turn inward and reflect, even though that’s hard. Nature and mindfulness can help with that, but it can be uncomfortable at first.
Greg: Definitely.
Tiffany: For people struggling with anxiety or other mental health issues, just sitting quietly with yourself for five minutes to meditate can feel unbearable.
Greg: Technology plays a big role in that. People use it to distract themselves from their problems, so they don’t have to be alone with their thoughts. When we disconnect from technology and step into nature, we’re forced to sit with those thoughts, which can be uncomfortable at first. But, like you said, over time, it helps you gain perspective. For me, it always brings me back to a place where I can break down the problem and figure out how to approach it more healthily.
Tiffany: It’s about being more mindful and taking control of life, rather than reacting to it. Electronics can numb us—there’s a reason they call it "doom scrolling," right? I’ve noticed that when I go through tough times or feel anxious, it’s easy to grab my phone and get lost in it. It took me years to get comfortable with meditation.
When I was younger, I did yoga, and during Shavasana, my thoughts would race. I struggled to sit with them. Now, I crave that quiet time, and 20 minutes of meditation isn’t even enough. So, if you’re listening and thinking, "Meditation is hard, being in nature without my phone is hard," that’s okay.
It’s normal. Our brains resist change. They prefer the path of least resistance, like numbing out rather than feeling. So, when it’s tough for you, it’s going to be even tougher for your kids.
Greg: That’s a great point. If it’s hard for us, imagine how difficult it is for children who’ve grown up with these devices. They’re more wired into it. Plus, they’ve been taught to be afraid of things outside.
Tiffany: Oh yeah.
Greg: It’s interesting when you think about the difference between fear and anxiety. Fear is a response to a real threat. Anxiety is a physical response to something we perceive as a threat.
Tiffany: A perceived threat.
Greg: We psych ourselves out over things that aren’t real dangers. For example, people new to hiking often worry about mountain lions, but the real concern should be staying hydrated, using sunscreen, and wearing protective clothing. Those are the actual risks. But we get anxious over things that aren’t real threats.
Tiffany: I always tell the students and families we work with, "You are not your thoughts, and just because you think something doesn’t make it true." We can think, "The sky is falling," like Chicken Little, and it feels just as real, but that doesn’t mean it’s reality.
Greg: Exactly.
Empowering Children Through Struggles
Tiffany: Sometimes we get caught up in our thoughts, and I’m not saying your anxiety isn’t real or valid—it is. But part of the challenge is helping you separate your thoughts from reality. In the last episode, we talked about how tough it is for parents to let their kids struggle. If kids already have a smartphone, social media, and video games, it’s hard for parents to take that away and step back.
But there’s a powerful message when we let our kids struggle—it’s saying, "You’re capable."
"I believe in you." On the other hand, when parents step in to rescue them, the unintentional message is, "You’re not capable. I don’t believe in you." Even though that’s not what parents mean, it’s what’s being conveyed. You had a great analogy about trees that I’d love for you to share.
Greg: Sure. It comes from the book Antifragile by Nassim Taleb. Jonathan Haidt references it in The Anxious Generation. The idea is that challenges are necessary for growth. There was a biodome experiment years ago, where they created a controlled environment for trees to grow. But the trees kept toppling over because there was no wind. Without wind to push against them, they didn’t develop strong root systems.
It’s the same with kids. They need challenges to grow, to understand their limits, and to discover what they’re capable of. If we protect them from every challenge, they won’t learn how to handle difficult situations. When kids are pushed and face struggles, they get through those tough moments and come out stronger.
And with each challenge they overcome, they gain the confidence to take on even bigger ones.
Tiffany: That’s the beauty of nature-based therapy—you allow the environment to create the challenges. It’s not about you versus the client in a power struggle. Instead, it’s nature creating natural consequences. For example, if you don’t wear sunscreen, you’ll get sunburned. If you don’t drink water, you’ll get dehydrated.
Some parents might think, "Well, that sounds scary. What if my child gets hurt or injured? Isn’t there a risk?" And honestly, I’d take it a step further—eventually, all our kids are going to experience challenges. They’re going to get hurt, whether emotionally or physically. At some point, as parents, we won’t always be there to protect them.
So, it’s not our job to shield them from everything. Our job is to teach them how to navigate the world, not to clear the path for them.
Greg: It’s the difference between preparing the path for the child or preparing the child for the path.
Safety in Nature-Based Therapy
Greg: In our program, safety is always our top priority. If someone isn’t safe, nothing else can happen.
Tiffany: So how do you balance providing nature-based therapy while ensuring a safe and supportive environment?
Greg: In our program, safety is always the top priority. We’re in a natural environment, so we have to take a lot of factors into account. For instance, much of the kids’ day is spent outside doing various activities, and we need to ensure that everyone is staying hydrated, wearing sunscreen, and wearing hats. If the temperature gets too high, we stop physical activity and seek shade.
While we’re doing all of this, we’re also teaching the kids the importance of these habits. At first, some might resist, saying things like, “I don’t need sunscreen,” but they quickly learn how valuable these precautions are. They realize, “Oh, this is how I can stay outside comfortably and enjoy myself.”
We also create challenging situations to help them grow. A lot of the activities, like mountain biking, are things they haven’t tried before. I’m always surprised by how many kids know how to ride a bike but haven’t done it much. To me, riding a bike as a kid was freedom, but for them, it can be intimidating. So, we teach them, “This is how the bike works, and here’s how to ride safely.” It’s the same with hiking and other skills.
I share my own experiences too, like when kids ask, “Why can’t we have knives?” I tell them, “See this scar? I wasn’t wearing my protective glove, and I sliced my thumb open.” They ask, “Did you get stitches?” and I explain how I handled it. It helps them understand that safety precautions aren’t just rules—they’re based on real-life experiences.
Ultimately, our goal is to help them feel comfortable in nature and to see the environment as a supportive space that promotes good mental health.
Tiffany: Nature is beautiful, but it’s important to remember the practical side too. I grew up near the beach, and it became second nature for me to teach my kids that even at a relaxing place like the beach, you still need sunscreen.
You still have to be careful about sharp rocks or rip currents. There’s a lot of risk, even though the beach seems relaxing. You’re not always just sipping drinks under an umbrella, right? It’s the same with the mountains and the desert—there are risks, but you can still be in those environments if you know how to stay safe.
Greg: Exactly.
Tiffany: It’s about teaching kids that yes, there are risks, but here’s how to stay safe. Ask for help when you need it, and understand the natural consequences, like wearing sunscreen to avoid getting burned.
Greg: Right, and asking for help is so important. I try to model that. I learned early on that it’s better to ask for help than to pretend you know something and look foolish later. If I don’t know something, I’ll ask. I’ll also admit when I’m wrong, or when I need a break. I encourage all our staff to do the same. It’s vital.
Tiffany: Absolutely. Whether you’re a therapist, parent, or even an aunt or uncle, the best way to teach kids is by showing them that it’s okay to ask for help, admit mistakes, and say you’re sorry. I love sharing these lessons with my kids.
We recently went on a beach vacation, and I told them about a time when I got caught in the undertow. I was so scared that I didn’t go back into the ocean for a year. But I learned to respect the ocean and pay attention to warnings about rip currents. When we were in Hawaii, the surf instructor said, “If you go out today, you’ll end up in Tahiti,” so we waited a couple of days. I explained to my kids why it was important to listen to that advice, and it’s moments like these that teach them.
Even if kids act like they aren’t listening, they are.
Greg: They are.
Tiffany: You’d be surprised. I’ve had sessions where a kid says, “Remember when you said this?” and I’m like, “Wow, you were paying attention!”
Engaging Teens with Nature Activities
Tiffany: Can you give an example of activities or therapy at Three Peaks Ascent that help teens disconnect from electronics and engage with nature again?
Greg: We do a lot of outdoor activities, like hiking and exploring the area. We’re fortunate to have access to a huge piece of public land with some really cool spots, including areas with interesting rock formations and petroglyphs.
Tiffany: For listeners who don’t know, what are petroglyphs?
Greg: Petroglyphs are rock carvings—pictures chipped into the rock by Indigenous people. There are also pictographs, which are paintings, and sometimes you’ll see cowboy art left by early settlers. It’s fascinating. At first, some kids are dismissive, like, "I don’t want to see that, it’s boring." But once they’re out there exploring, they start to get into it and think, "Wow, this is pretty cool."
When we first get kids into the program, it can be tough for them to be without their technology. They experience what we call "withdrawals."
Tiffany: What does that look like?
Greg: A good example is the phantom vibration feeling—when you think your phone is vibrating in your pocket, but it isn’t. That’s a sign of how attached we are to our phones. The kids also worry about missing out on things or what their friends are doing. They’ll say, "My friends don’t know where I am, I need to talk to them." You’ll see irritability and sometimes trouble sleeping because they’re used to staying up late with their screens. We help them adjust to a more natural routine, going to bed when the sun goes down and waking up with the sun.
The Impact of Technology on Mental Health
Tiffany: That ties in with what’s discussed in The Anxious Generation—about the negative effects of technology on kids’ mental health. They’re more socially deprived, spending more time online and less face-to-face. Do you see kids struggle socially, too?
Greg: Definitely. In our program, without their phones, kids don’t have that crutch to fall back on when they feel uncomfortable. So at first, they might isolate or not know how to start a conversation. It can be awkward for them. I’ve also worked with kids who’ve gone back to using technology after a break, and they’ve said that when they feel socially awkward, they turn to their phones.
Tiffany: I think we can all relate to that. When things get uncomfortable, we pull out our phones, saying, "Oh, I have to check this message or email."
Greg: A lot of kids don’t even realize what’s going on. They often use their phones to avoid uncomfortable situations, like approaching someone to start a conversation. I point out to them that when they’re glued to their phones, they might be sending the message that they don’t want to interact—that they’re busy or uninterested. So it’s no surprise that no one approaches them.
Once they start to recognize this, they begin to take ownership of their interactions. They need to learn how to put their phones down and engage in conversations. I try to model this behavior by striking up conversations with people I don’t know or don’t interact with much, encouraging them to do the same.
Tiffany: You’re helping them navigate the challenges of being hooked on their electronics. We’ve talked about social deprivation, but you also mentioned sleep deprivation. That’s a big issue.
Greg: Definitely.
Tiffany: Lack of sleep can lead to serious problems like depression, anxiety, irritability, cognitive deficits, and poor learning, which can result in lower grades. Long-term studies have shown that smartphones are negatively impacting our sleep.
You’re seeing these effects in your therapy and the program, right?
Greg: It often takes kids some time to adjust to a new sleep schedule, especially since they don’t have their phones to rely on. Many justify their phone use by saying things like, “Listening to music helps me sleep.”
Tiffany: Right, but they could read a book instead.
Greg: But they often read on their phones. The problem is the blue light from screens. If they were reading a physical book, that would be different, but the behavior is usually justified even though research shows it’s not helpful. The following morning’s behavior often reflects that they stayed up too late.
Tiffany: Plus, there's also the issue of attention fragmentation. Phones constantly interrupt us, severely impairing our ability to focus, leading to what feels like self-induced ADHD.
Greg: Yes, we’re always getting buzzes, bells, and notifications pulling us in different directions. We might start with good intentions, trying to accomplish something, but end up going down a rabbit hole for 35 minutes.
Tiffany: It’s like we’re wired to multitask, but it doesn’t work that way.
Greg: Many believe they can multitask, but the reality is we just switch tasks. When we try to multitask, or what I prefer to call “switch-tasking,” we become less productive. We take longer to finish tasks and make more mistakes.
Tiffany: So how does this translate to the kids in your program? Are you seeing them struggle with attention and being present? How do they work through that?
Greg: Over time, things start to get better for the kids because they have fewer distractions pulling them away. When our staff implements meditation, some kids show interest, but we don’t force anyone to participate. I think it's important that meditation remains a positive experience, not a negative one.
Often, we find a few interested kids who join in, and they say, “That looks pretty cool.” For example, we have a student practicing breathing techniques like box breathing, and he’s noticed it’s helping his sleep. It’s rewarding to see him make the connection that these techniques can improve his sleep hygiene, especially since he doesn’t have a phone there to distract him.
I also teach a general psychology class at a local university, and many of my students are starting to realize how phones disrupt their lives.
Overcoming Digital Distractions
Greg: They begin implementing techniques like leaving their phones in another room at night and logging off an hour before bed. Younger kids, on the other hand, can be less motivated at first, but once they see the benefits of being free from distractions, they become more engaged. They also tend to be more honest about the problems they encounter.
Tiffany: One major downside of phone use is addiction. We talked about that dopamine hit from constant notifications, and you had a great term for it.
Greg: Yes, that’s operant conditioning. Research shows that variable rates of positive reinforcement lead to the greatest levels of repetitive behavior.
Tiffany: Helping kids in your program break away from that is crucial.
Greg: Definitely.
Tiffany: They probably still feel preoccupied with thoughts like, “What are my friends doing? Do they know I’m gone? What am I missing out on?” FOMO is real, and it causes a lot of anxiety for kids. But over time, they start rewiring their brains, reconnecting with nature, and finding new skills to manage their emotions. Do you see kids having significant outbursts or anger as they detox?
Greg: Initially, we do sometimes see an increase in irritability.
Tiffany: Okay.
Greg: Many students struggle with emotional dysregulation, leading to outbursts. We're working on helping them implement techniques to manage these emotions. When they start feeling dysregulated, it’s rarely an immediate reaction. It’s often a buildup. We help them recognize early signs of dysregulation so they can implement strategies before they feel the need to blow up.
Tiffany: That brings us back to the importance of awareness. It’s about helping kids recognize their triggers and the cycle that builds up to those moments of disconnection. We’re trying to reconnect them back to themselves.
Can you share a specific example of how nature-based therapy has helped a teen at ThreePeaks Ascent with their electronic usage?
Greg: I've worked with multiple students who have struggled significantly with gaming, pornography, and social media. After spending a considerable amount of time away from these activities, many of them gain insight into their habits. One key thing for parents to understand is that when a student first arrives, they often underestimate or are dishonest about their actual usage.
Tiffany: Wait, they lied about how much they were using? Shocking.
Greg: Yes, and what’s interesting is that they might not even realize the extent of their consumption. If you’ve ever heard of the term “flow,” it describes that state of immersion where artists get lost in their work. Unfortunately, the same thing can happen negatively with video games or endless scrolling on social media. A child might think, "I was only on for an hour," when in reality, it was five or even all night.
When students break away from these distractions for a few weeks, they start to become more aware of how much time they’ve spent and at what cost. They begin to question, "Was it worth spending hundreds of hours on a video game for something that isn’t tangible? Does it lead to anything meaningful, like a vacation or a great achievement?"
These companies design their products to be endless, keeping users hooked. Once the kids start making these connections, it can be transformative. For instance, I had a student who previously spent a lot of time on TikTok. Through their connection with nature, they realized that all that screen time felt like wasted time.
This realization ties back to a point you made earlier about how kids absorb these experiences without seeing immediate rewards.
Long-Term Benefits of Nature Therapy
Greg: One challenge with working with adolescents is that we often don’t witness the full impact of our efforts until they’re in their mid-to-late twenties. I’ve been doing this long enough to hear from former students reaching out to say, "Hey, I’m sorry for how I acted," or "Thank you for your help."
Tiffany: Those moments are so rewarding, even if we act like we didn’t make a difference.
Greg: It’s really special to have a family therapy session where a kid shares something their parents have said. I’ve seen this happen multiple times with one individual, where they could reconnect and truly grasp the advice and wisdom their parents had given them. They’d bring it up in sessions, and I remember Mom and Dad looking at each other in amazement, thinking, “Oh my gosh, this is beautiful.” That was one of my favorite individuals to work with, and it was incredible to see how they connected so deeply with ideas that initially felt foreign to them. At first, they would say, “I have to get out of here. I can’t be outside all day; that’s too hard.”
Tiffany: In relation to what you said about not always being aware of how much time we spend on our phones, it's interesting how some smartphones, especially Apple devices, now send weekly alerts about our app usage. As an adult, I often find myself shocked at how many hours I’ve spent on certain apps. It’s great that these accountability measures help us become more aware of how much time we waste.
Greg: If it's surprising for adults, it’s likely just as surprising for kids when they see it laid out like that. And it’s not just the time spent online; it’s also the mental preoccupation when they’re away from their devices. They’re still thinking about it. There was a fascinating study done years ago on the video game Tetris, which was a phenomenal game and made me a great packer.
If anyone has played Tetris for a while, they might notice how they start seeing items fit together while grocery shopping, almost as if they’re applying the game to real life. Even with such simple games, researchers found that people were preoccupied with them outside of gameplay.
Challenges of Introducing Nature Activities to Teens
Greg: Now imagine the immersive worlds of modern video games and how they affect the way teens view the world. There can be some benefits, but there are also many negatives.
Tiffany: So how do we shift that focus to immersing them in nature and helping them reconnect with themselves?
Greg: Yes, the real world.
Tiffany: That leads me to my next question: what challenges do you encounter when introducing teens to nature-based activities?
Greg: Initially, there’s a lot of resistance, mostly due to discomfort. It’s surprising how regular activities, like hiking or cooking over a campfire, can be met with such reluctance. Teens often say things like, “I can’t do this. Nobody does this.” But people do engage in these activities for recreation. It’s quite common.
When I’m off shift, I’m usually hiking or doing outdoor activities. That’s what many of our staff enjoy, and it’s how I spend my vacations. This initial resistance often comes with a belief that these activities won’t help them. They question how such experiences will translate back to their regular lives, especially when they return home to technology.
Many view these challenges as non-transferable, so it can take time for them to recognize the value of doing hard things. By facing difficulties, they realize what they’re capable of and develop resilience. They learn to navigate everyday conflicts, which often feel challenging because life is full of obstacles. Being outside exposes them to the elements—sun, wind, rain—and that helps build grit.
When they return home, they’re better equipped to handle the challenges they encounter in a familiar environment. For instance, a book report that once seemed daunting becomes manageable. They realize, “Oh, I can do this! It’s not such a big deal.”
Tiffany: Or maybe this negative interaction with a friend is something you’ve learned how to navigate.
You may never use a bow drill to start a fire again, but the persistence and grit you develop from learning how to do something difficult can translate to, “I can do this.”
Greg: Yes.
Tiffany: And that gives you the confidence to tackle other challenges as well.
Greg: Learning a primitive skill like that is quite challenging and takes a significant amount of time. By the time someone successfully makes a fire, they’ve learned to take feedback and advice from others. They’ve observed what successful individuals do, incorporated their techniques, and dealt with frustrations along the way.
When you’re practicing something repetitively, you might end up with blisters on your hands, or the spindle might slip and hurt your fingers. It can be very frustrating. I’ve yet to meet someone who makes their first fire and thinks, “Yeah, that wasn’t a big deal.”
Tiffany: I bet it releases a level of dopamine that’s even greater than what they experience with their phones.
Greg: Absolutely.
Tiffany: For our listeners, could you explain what bow drilling is?
Greg: Bow drill fire-making is a primitive technique that involves using a piece of wood with a hole in it as a base. You take a spindle, which is a round piece of wood a few inches long, and place it in that hole. You apply pressure on top of the spindle with a rock, another piece of wood, or a bone. Then, you use a bow—a curved piece of wood with a nylon cord wrapped around the spindle—to create friction.
You pull the bow back and forth, which generates heat. This friction creates tiny bits of dust from the spindle and the fireboard, which eventually turns into coal. You can then take that coal, place it in a tinder bundle or nest, and blow on it to create fire.
What’s exciting is that the kids who do this love it. While it can be frustrating and may take a long time, when they finally get their fire, it’s incredibly empowering.
Not many people in the world know how to do this—maybe only about 1% or even half of 1%. Even if they excel at soccer or football, those are activities many people participate in. But starting a fire with a bow drill is something very few people master.
When we think about fire from a historical perspective, it was a game-changer for humanity. It allowed us to cook food, stay protected, and pursue activities later in the night. Fire has had a significant impact on our lives.
Tiffany: Cooking our food.
Greg: It's pretty cool.
Tiffany: That’s awesome. What would you say to parents who are skeptical about the effectiveness of nature-based therapy? They might think, "Why can’t I just send my kid to talk to a therapist instead?"
Greg: Well, personally, having spent a significant portion of my life outdoors, I’ve learned so much from that experience. For example, when I go on a trip with a friend and spend three days in the desert, it feels completely different than a few weeks of traditional therapy. The interactions we have and the challenges we face together in the outdoors provide unique learning opportunities. I would recommend some sort of outdoor excursion for everyone.
Anyone who feels disconnected from nature or is apprehensive about spending time outdoors could greatly benefit from it. I'm a huge advocate for outdoor immersion. For individuals, especially those who are heavily involved in technology, having a significant disruption—where tech isn’t around, and they can interact with other kids in a playful environment—can help them return to being kids again. Those are some of the major benefits of nature.
Tiffany: I completely agree. I’ve learned more about my friends during hikes or challenging outdoor excursions than I ever could just by driving in a car and talking.
Greg: 100%.
Tiffany: You mentioned off-air this concept of awe. Can you explain what you mean by that about nature-based therapy?
Experiencing Awe in Nature
Greg: Sure. Jonathan Haidt, in "The Anxious Generation," discusses this idea of awe. It’s when you encounter something so vast that it’s beyond your comprehension. I remember the first time I saw the Grand Canyon. I was in my late teens, on a backpacking trip, and we arrived late at night. I couldn't wait to see it in the morning. When I finally walked up to the edge, I was just blown away—"Wow, this is unreal!"
I’ve had similar experiences while whitewater rafting. I spent three weeks on the Colorado River last November, and the size of the rapids was astounding. If anyone has been surfing in the ocean, they know that feeling of being overwhelmed. As a diver, I've seen great white sharks swim by cages, and it hits you—"Wow, we are surrounded by incredible things." It’s a small glimpse into the vast experiences and places that exist out there.
Tiffany: I love that. I think our listeners can all recall their awe-inspiring moments. I have a core memory from my last year at girls' camp when we slept under the stars for the first time. I remember talking with my friends late into the night about the world, our beliefs, hopes, and dreams. Looking up at the vastness of the stars made me feel incredibly small and connected to nature. It was almost spiritual.
That experience was awe-inspiring and helped me step outside of myself, reconnecting me with the larger world. It’s grounding in a way that’s hard to describe—just really grounding and awe-inspiring.
Greg: It's neat.
Tiffany: I agree. The more we can help our kids disconnect from their electronics, the better. If you're a parent listening and thinking, "Gosh, that sounds hard," there is hope. Jonathan Haidt mentions in his book that if more parents come together to say, "We're going to take an electronics fast" or "We’ll spend less time online and more time outdoors," the easier it will be for everyone. Finding a program like yours is fantastic because it’s not just one kid reconnecting with nature and working with therapists; it's a whole group of kids sharing a collective experience, which is powerful and healing.
Greg: Early intervention and addressing these issues are crucial. One of the things Haidt mentioned is the importance of getting involved with your PTA and school to implement ways to reduce phone usage in school and increase playtime at home. Start with your communities and your younger children. We’re not too far gone with these problems; it’s not completely out of control. We can still get back to a healthier place.
Tiffany: To our listeners, we encourage you to find those moments with your family and kids. Disconnect from electronics and create awe-inspiring memories that help you reconnect with nature. Starting this example within yourself and your family is a great place to begin. Thank you so much, Greg. It’s been wonderful discussing nature-based therapy and how we can help kids disconnect from electronics and reconnect with themselves and nature.
Exploring Nature-Based Therapy Options
Tiffany: In our next episode, we’ll talk about when to consider nature-based therapy and what options are available. If you’ve tried outpatient therapy and other approaches but still struggle to get your child disconnected from electronics and improve their mental health, this episode will help you find the next steps. Stay tuned, listeners.
Greg: Sounds good. Thanks!